Sanctions, I really don't know what I'm doing

[Nameforposting]

Hi,

I really have no idea or confidence that I know what I'm doing regarding consequences for poor behaviour.
DD is almost 13yrs old and becoming extremely challenging - 'meltdowns' that last for hours, terrible attitude, loss of control when she's angry leading to her throwing things and overturning things.
Will scream and shout and rage and won't 'back down', she just ups the ante no matter what I do.

Today she has been grounded for a week and lost her Ipad for a week, gained an early bedtime and lost her pocket money, this has been as a result of her being in the mother of all tantrums since 12 noon and is still ongoing now at 10:30pm

She knows that she stands to lose the chance of getting something she really wants for her birthday but continues to rage.
For the last few hours she's been telling me that she doesn't care if she loses everything and once she has, there's nothing left I can 'do to her'

The last couple of times she has had these uncontrollable rages, I've felt that she was close to lashing out which worries me a lot because she pushes it so far I'm sometimes scared of what my reaction will be.

No real anger/behavioural issues at school, she's reasonably well behaved but disorganised, forgetful, loses all her stuff, disengaged and disinterested.
She doesn't have a boyfriend, I'm 100% sure she's not involved in drugs or alcohol (she's still extremely naive and 'young' in some ways)
She has had the usual friendship issues but nothing major.
She does have severe asthma and allergies but no other health issues.
She has a much older, adult sibling (who has ASD)

I've a feeling that this links in with her menstrual cycle (she wasn't like this at Primary school) but apart from giving her Evening Primrose oil, what else can be done?

Can anybody help point me in the right direction of how to make logical judgements about sanctions? Mine feel to be very spur of the moment, illogical and also (dare I say it) like a 'retaliation' on my part.

I'm well aware that my own behaviour during these times isn't always very adult so any tips will be greatly appreciated.

What happens if you just ignore her rages? Can you walk away or tell her to go rage in her room?

Then try and talk to her when she has calmed down?

Hiya,

She follows me, shouting, ranting, big hand gestures -all very dramatic and OTT.
I've locked myself in my room (she'll stand outside the door screeching or booting the door).

What happens usually is she completely burns herself out, but this can take hours to get to that point.
She can't let things drop either, she'll calm down sometimes for a few hours but will then 'recall' part of the row and kick it all off again.

She'll refuse to go to her room so then we end up in another additional stand-off.
She'll challenge me to 'make her'
She'll sometimes then trash her room

In between these massive outbursts, she's a reasonably average kid, no big issues.

I agree with sanctions just being like revenge. I know they are very popular with some on here, but I think they just serve to remind your DC that you have a degree of power over them, and will just cause resentment.

Try reading the book everyone talks about - Get Out Of My Life, But First Take Me And Alex Into Town. Also, have a look at Nurtureshock. There's a couple of chapters in there which are really useful in explaining teen behaviour.

Do you think she may have ASD? It doesn't always look the same in girls as in boys.

I have one of these too! Can we start giving them stuff like evening Primrose at that age?!

Do you argue back? I'd try to not engagee with her at all while she is raging.

That's easier said than done though.

The sanctions won't work. They will just make her rant even more.

Yes, the sanctions seem to make it worse (and give her something else to rage about)

No matter what I do, she rages, if I keep calm, she goes apoplectic, she wants me to get angry and she can't cope with me staying calm or ignoring her.
In fact ignoring her seems to be the very worst thing (in her eyes)
She will try to get me to 'admit' that it's all my fault (that she's angry).
She will not take any responsibility at all for her behaviour and the consequences of it.
She continually shouts that she hates me, hates herself, wants to die, wants me to die, I am abusive, everybody hates me etc etc.
None of that bothers me, I don't respond to it.

When she's burnt herself out, she's usually tearful, apologetic (to a degree) and wants cuddles and reassurances.

Regarding the ASD.

I've sometimes thought she may have ADD as she is so chaotic and disorganised, very easily distracted and gets 'giddy'
She can sometimes get so giggly and giddy that she can't easily snap out of it and calm down.

But then I remember that none of this behaviour appeared to be present before Secondary school and the onset of her periods.

With my DD re periods, I always felt there were times of the month where she would either explode or come on! I was usually right
When she was 13-14 it was really difficult but changing the way I responded to her really helped. I used to leave the room and not engage until she was calmer, then give hugs, make her a hot drink, healthy snack etc
Was very hard work at times but it definately improved things even though I really had to bite my lip sometimes.

I really like the idea of each day a fresh start, I think that would work better with her.

What do you do when they blatantly refuse to carry out an instruction - for instance, today she refused, at the very last minute to go to a pre-scheduled event which we had already paid for.
After much negotiating and cajoling she was told that if she didn't go, she would lose the use of her Ipad, she refused to go.

So now I'm aware that she got what she wanted (didn't go) but has raged about the loss of her Ipad ever since. (And it's all my fault not hers apparently)

Can anybody suggest how I could have handled this in a different way?

My DD sounds similar and I am sure it is linked to PMT. I probably would have done the same as you, but these days I am putting in more work getting her agreement prior to making arrangements, as I found the 'I didn't want to do it anyway,' difficult to handle.

My DD very similar she has ADHD.I find over punishing failed don't give more than one at a time (as tempting as it is) .
I have been confiscating her phone for very short periods starts on an hour if she goes to calm down if she carries on being OTT screaming like a banshee for usually no reason I add an hour on etc. Only been doing this for a week but so far so good.
She is also disengaged ,disintetested and sooooo disorganised I still pack her school bag

I've been on a teen parenting course that covered bits of this, but it wasn't all that relevant to me at the time so I've forgotten most of it.

What I do remember I think is

• talk, talk, talk
• short sanctions better. The tutor said loss of phone for 15 minutes, or early bedtime 15minutes.
• if deciding not to go to something, OK, but they have to phone and explain to organiser. Longer consequence was I think don't book something they want to do again
• if they are a 'follower' then take yourself away. Even if you can go out in the car without them. Give them the space to calm down.

I suggest see doctor re PMT if it is that bad. Maybe keep a diary to check?

Thanks everybody, some really good ideas that I'll definitely put into practice

What I've come to realise is that when she gets into these moods, absolutely nothing works (even staying calm, ignoring or walking away) so any sanctions are actually adding fuel to the fire at that moment.

I've spoken to school today, they are going to refer her to a Learning mentor (who can also cover stuff like anger, emotions etc).

I will keep a diary as this extreme behaviour does seem cyclical, I've also bought some craft type stuff which I'll use as a way of getting her to spend some time with me.

Regarding the refusal to go out yesterday, it was too a learning centre (as she's really struggling at school and falling behind), something she agreed to join and was keen to join. (Paid for up front and monthly)

Thanks everyone

She would probably benefit from a supplement aimed at women - even though she's only 13. Biocare or Higher Nature are good. She needs one with not only essential fatty acids, eg Evening Primrose oil (or Starflower of Borage Oil) but also magnesium, b-vitamins, selenium and chromium. It will take a month or two to have an effect but it should take the edge of her rage.

I'm so glad you've been advised to cut back on sanctions. She's at the stage where she needs help with managing her behaviour herself without enjoying the drama of an 'unfair', 'excessive' punishment adding to her woes. Difficult though it is, the best thing to do is to briefly, calmly and sympathetically acknowledge her annoyance then leave it at that. Try not to be obviously ignoring her as a punishment. It's fine to tell her you don't like being shouted at/nagged/whatever - so you'll speak about it when she has calmed down. If you then find you're going over the same ground just tell her you've already discussed this so you're not going to go over it again.

I firmly agree with the advice to take every opportunity to give brief praise/compliments whenever possible too. Also, to ask her opinion on things and give her choices eg, of what to have for dinner, if it's practical whenever possible. And resist the urge to laugh at or correct her more outrageous opinions. She needs to feel that you value her for being her - then she's more likely to make good choices.

The less you nag - not saying that you do - advise, correct, argue, control the more effective will be the times you do come down decisively. And it's okay to acknowledge that it is annoying for her not to be allowed to do stuff but it's your job to still occasionally make choices for her as you are her mum, who has more life experience than her.

A good bit if advice I was given- if a child has nothing, they have nothing to lose- 1 behaviour = 1 consequence.

When things reach tipping point, I go out of my home and walk down the road because I don't want them to see me roar like a banshee or weep like a victim (both of which I always regret). If it's too late at night and doesn't feel safe to walk down the road, I go behind the block of flats where I live and just take a few deep breaths and count to 10. This is to show that their behaviour has gone too far, but also it's to stop my own from going into banshee/victim mode. They have incredible skills for pushing our buttons to see what will make us crumble or explode. When the crumble/explode feeling is upon me, I go out, and it only needs to be for a few moments to break the atmosphere. I'm doing it for myself so they can learn to protect themselves in the future if anyone does to them what they're doing to me! You don't have to stay and take it.

It does make a difference. If I had a big house, I'd go to the West Wing ;)

I experienced one of these uncontrollable hormone-fuelled rages and at the end of it hugged her very tightly and said I understood the feelings of irrational rage and can remember raging myself but part of growing up is to learn to feel rage but not take it out on others. I may have been very lucky but it has never happened since.