Why does DS1's choice to give up meat irritate and upset my mum and MIL so much?

[IrianofWay]

That's it really?

DS1 is 17. He has decided to give up meat. It's something he has talked about before but over the summer holidays he took the bull (so to speak) by the horns and finally made the decision. I am 100% supportive and am proud of him for standing up for a principle and I know it isn't easy for him as he loves meat. He is having to expand his diet to include more veg and increase the amounts of pulses and lentils he eat. I lived with vegetarians at university so got in the habit of cooking and eating veggie and only started including more meat as time went by and we had more money to spare.

But.... mum is really upset about it. Convinced he will suffer malnutrition - says she's never met a healthy vegetarian MIL is even worse - insists that when she was a school dinner lady she could tell which kids were vegetarian as they were always thin and pale! She also suggested we cook lots of roast dinners as that will test his resolve and see if he's serious! WTF! As DH said, you wouldn't deliberately smoke in front of a smoker trying to give up the evil weed to 'test his resolve'.

Why would anyone object so strongly to this? I am quite cross with them both TBH.

I am not a vegetarian but one of my favourite cookbooks is Rose Elliot's new vegaterian cookbook. Get him a copy! Also her Bean Book which is ideal for students on a budget.

With regard to your mother and mother in law...it's really not any of their business is it?.

Thanks rembrant. Got them both ! And a really nice indian vegetarian cookery book whose name escapes me.

No not their business but I don't understand their objections.

Madhur jaffrey has a great curry book for veggies but the preparation of spices in it can be a bit much for a new cook.

I love Hugh fw's Veg too.

I've listened to the kid of stuff your family have said my whole life. Items water off a duck's back now, but very annoying with people wafting bacon sarnies in my face asking if I want a bite (I hate the smell of bacon).

They do get bored if ignored and my best weapon was learning to cook really well and serving them a really great veggie meal.

Good luck to him. It's so easy to be veggie now,compared to 25 years ago, as there are lots of easy to get ingredients from eastern foods which are a staple in my diet. It doesn't have to be quorn all the time, but it's nice to add in to chillis and spag Bol sometimes.

Loosing control, your son is making his own individual adult choice. That's the reason. They can't come to terms with the fact he has his own opinions and there is nothing they can do to influence it. Empty best syndrome at it's best Unfortunetly.
I'm glad he has your support.

Typo - empty nest

Tell them both you've realised that telling a teenager they won't be able to stick at something is the best way to get them to dig their heels in, if your mil and dm think he should eat meat, passing no comment at all is the best route.

I have also met unhealthy vegetarian children, but they were all fussy children who's parents couldn't get them to eat the variety and quantity of foods needed to be healthy, your ds is old enough to understand he needs to eat a range of foods to make up for cutting out meat, so this shouldn't be an issue. He's not 6 for goodness sake!

But don't worry, at 17 your ds is old enough to be taught the "nod and smile at granny spouting nonsense" technique - just make it clear to him you don't share their views and he just has to make allowances for old people being stuck in their ways.

Hahaha I wish I was thin! I've never been thin :(

Some people are very ignorant about vegetarianism, just ignore. He will be just fine.

30 years ago as a young teen I announced to my family I was giving up meat.

If my parents/wider family had said nothing, I'd probably have lasted a few months.

As it was, my dad confidently announced "it'll never last!". That got me through the first few months.

Then my grandmother kept trying to sneak bits of meat into my food when I visited. That kept it an interesting challenge.

And after a few years, I was used to it, no longer found meat attractive anyway and have never seen any reason to go back to eating it. Without their assistance in giving a stubborn teen something to resist, I wouldn't now still be a vegetarian 30 years later!

Yes it the Jaffrey book I have. Love it!

Funnily enough he has had some really bad spots recently but since he stopped eating meat they have all cleared up! Might be coincidence of course...

ehric - I agree. I only ever lose weight when eating low-carb - a veggie diet doesn't really delivery low-carb But I don't much like meat so prefer a diet high in lentils, veg and rice etc.

The empty nest thing makes sense I guess but surely it should be MY empty nest not theirs?

What does 'unhealthy' mean exactly?

If a veggie is too thin they are unhealthy [no, just lean]. if they are too fat they are unhealthy [no, just like their food]. If they are in the middle they are too pasty [no, just don't go out in the sun too much or wear sunscreen] or too leathery [no, just like going out in the sun alot].

People who are meat eaters can be all of the above, just like people who don't eat meat.

I'm sure your mum and MIL have met healthy vegetarians, they just didn't know they were veggies as most of us just get on with life and don't make a song and dance about it. The people that do make a song and dance are usually the meat eaters, as proven by their responses.

Just cooked one of the best curries I have ever eaten. Leeks, courgettes from my garden, new potatoes from DH's school garden, green peppers, green lentils and red spilt lentils - simmering in the slow cooker for hours. Just lovely! For my 11 and 15 yr old to eat the whole lot without avoiding the green bits it must have been OK.

I turned vegetarian at 16, and still am 30 years later. My mother wasn't thrilled, so I had to do a lot of reading up on vegetarian nutrition to convince her that I wasn't going to waste away, but these days it's hardly a fringe diet. There are loads of vegetarian athletes (e.g. see this article) and even vegan bodybuilding seems to be a thing. So there really is nothing to worry about on the nutrition front.

But I would guess that although your mother & MiL may be officially worried about nutrition, what they are really feeling is that he has rejected all the cultural/family associations to do with eating meat. Sitting around a table with a big hunk of meat in the middle (particularly at Christmas, but also Sunday lunches etc) has a lot of cultural baggage attached, and they may feel he is pulling away from all that, rather than just deciding not to eat a certain type of food. Food is very much tied up with nurturing - a way of showing affection by proxy - particularly for women, so he could be seen as rejecting their affection as well as their values and traditions.

I'm sure they will get used to it in time, but if they make a big thing of it and try and 'tempt' him with roasts and bacon sandwiches (for some reason militant carnivores always seem to think bacon is the ultimate temptation that will cause vegetarians to 'crack', but personally I find the smell revolting) they will probably just push him away rather than bringing him back into the meat-eating fold.

Feeding someone you love is about so much more than nutrition. TBH if you look at what goes into many celebratory family meals (Christmas Dinner, wedding breakfast etc) nutrition is possibly not even on the front page of the list of what the meal is about!

Feeding someone you love is about demonstrating that love. It is about togetherness, being part of the clan.

Is there an underlying fear by DM & DMiL that your DS is in some way rejecting them?

Could your DS help them to see that he hasnt rejected them by looking at recipes and coming up with something they can cook for the whole family which includes him?

i used Rose Elliott's bean book when I was a veggie, for 15 years, and bought another copy recently.
it is marvellous, and really really healthy. There was absolutely nothing the matter with my diet when I was a veggie. I would become one again if only my family would!

I had a dilemma with this when DS was 15. He said he was thinking about not eating meat.
We are big meat eaters and I loved our family meal times. My heart sank at the prospect of forever doing a double menu. I didn't say any of that though.

What I did do was to talk about my own ethics on buying meat. I never buy imported meat and mostly buy locally sourced and free range. He hadn't known that and decided to carry on eating meat at home.

As far as your DM and MIL are concerned I suspect KittenOverlord has a point as well. There is a joke,
Q "how do you know if someone is a vegetarian?"
A " Give them 5 minutes and they'll tell you."

I'm guilty of being an 'unhealthy' vegetarian, but probably not in the way your DM imagines - I eat far too much cheese and carbs!!

OP, how old are your DM & MIL? Sometimes these attitudes are a generational thing.

DB went vegetarian at the same age, and while he got no stick from the family, some of the remarks were just jaw dropping. The best (worse) was from his GF's Dad: "You do know you'll be on the Special Branch watchlist now?" He wasn't joking either, as he worked for the County force.

Because for some women of a certain generation, feeding their family is the very important act of love. And if someone then becomes vegetarian and rejects their food they interpret this as a rejection of their love and a rejection of themselves.

I know it sounds bonkers, but I truly believe that this is true for some women. I'm pretty sure this is how my mother saw it when I first became veggie 25 years ago. And to be honest, there was probably an element of truth in it, amongst the whole being revolted by meat issue.

Thanks all.

The rejection thing is part for it I am sure. If it was good enough for us etc

My parents are real country people and have a very unsentimental attitude to animals (apart from pets of course). They don't like deliberate cruelty though and I think that will be DS's way in with them I think - he has no problem with eating meat in principle but beleives the meat industry is unacceptably cruel in the way it treats animals and kills them. May be a discussion to be had. I agree with him as it happens but haven't go the courage of my convictions I guess.

MIL has some fairly unpleasant views about animals - utterly lacking in compassion or even interest. She is a staunch Christian who thinks that man being given stewardship over the world makes it OK to be as careless and callous as you like - not sure that is actually what is meant.... It's a family trait as far as I can see. DH being the exception to that rule thankfully.

Over a week now and no issues for DS or for the rest of the family (yet!)

it is perfectly possible to be well on a vegetarian diet. It is veganism that isn't compatible with life.

human beings ARE designed to eat meat but that doesn't mean we have to do it.

How is veganism not compatible with life? What a bizarre assertion. I would very much like to hear on what you base this bald statement.