13 yr old ds. Am I missing something here?

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Long background of being bullied. He started at one secondary and was bullied every day without it being dealt with until we took him out of school after two months.
He had got really low, was referred to CAMHS urgently.
He started another school after a month or so, when he was more himself again. (CAMHS weren't much help as ds masks how he's feeling and comes across as the happiest, most lovely boy in the world)

Things have been going OKish, school are very strict and on the ball, which Dh and I are pleased with.

However, lately, ds has been having more "episodes" like he was having before (I'll describe it later)
There seems to be low level bullying going on. He is part of a friendship group, but he seems to be the one they treat a bit badly, exclude him etc.
Ds doesn't want me to say anything, as he feels that his "friends" will drop him and he'll have no-one. I am saying something, because he can't live like this. We can't either.

The episodes he has - he'll be fine, then something won't go his way. today the lawnmower wouldn't start, he flipped and started being rude and disrespectful. This passed, but seemed to then set the tone. Later, he wanted to put a t-shirt in the washer to rinse. I put a whole load in as the end result is the same/better. He flipped out.
He turns into the most obnoxious boy ever, being really rude, winds everyone up. If anyone touches him, accidentally or otherwise, he yells "don't touch me" at the top of his voice. If his three year old brother goes near him at this time, ds will lash out at him (usually he is the best brother ever).
Tonight from 4.30, everything he has done has been extra loud, playing his xbox - loud fake laughter, loud shouts sounds over and over. If we talk to him, he's just horrible in response.
This has been going on for nearly 5 hours. I. Want. To. Throttle. Him.

Is this normal teenage behaviour?

His younger brother (9) is likely to have AS. We're waiting for assessment.
The thing is, we're so entrenched in all things ASD that we can't see the woods for the trees.
Ds1 is begging to leave school (not an option, we suspect that this will happen wherever he goes). He refuses to see anyone in a professional capacity, like I said, he becomes the most amazing, happy boy ever and has pulled the wool over the eyes of everyone.

I suspect he has a few ASD traits (but not enough to be worth going down that route) but like I said, I am so entrenched in it all, I admit that I maybe don't recognise normal anymore, and I'm just imagining things.

What do I do? Help :(

(Sorry, very long!)

oh, no answer yet - okay, I'll write something.

Sorry to hear all this. First of all, welcome to the teenage years!

Teenage tantrums are normal but that does not mean you should tolerate them. No need to go down any therapeutic routes, this can be sorted through simple behavioural tactics.

When he is normal again, sit him down with dad/partner etc. and work out a plan together what is tolerable behaviour and what is not and that he should go somewhere quiet as soon as you see the first signs of anger . WRITE IT DOWN AND SIGN!

Then stick to the contract to the letter.

The 'bullying' is normal too and also that he does not want you to interfere. Let him find his way with this - it's part of growing up. Too much interference can inhibit his development.

Good luck!

Sounds as if his friends are being a bit mean, but as I'm sure you're aware, that's kind of normal at secondary school, it's not all rosy.

His behaviour sounds like normal teenager behaviour, however since you say this isn't normal for him, maybe it's his way of dealing with anger and hurt. Is there something else he can do to 'release'? Secondary school can be a very stressful and difficult time.

My DS is almost 13 (hmm must get my act together for a present !) - for him that would not be normal behaviour at all.

Frustration and irritation - normal - the reactions you describe sound more extreme.

To be honest – before I read the bit about his brother having an ASC – I was wondering a bit if he might have some ASC issues? The social difficulties. The sudden flipping. The extreme sensitivity to touch. And he has a low tolerance for frustration and for having his plans disrupted, which was also true for my DS (who is diagnosed Asperger’s)… Um. Dunno. It does depend how long all this has been going on for, and how often these things happen. Anyway it seems a bit more extreme than the usual teen strop.

Before you tackle the school (if you do!) you could also try having a look at The Unwritten Rules of Friendship especially “the short-fused child” and “the vulnerable child”, see if they match your DS? Maybe with his long history of being bullied he has some issues that he could learn to manage better himself?

Your situation sounds very similar to mine DS1 is almost 16 and has always been a bit difficult, had struggles at school (more with teachers than friends but does go off people), loud with anger issues. His younger brother is 13 and has a DX of Aspergers, I am fairly convinced Ds1 also has a fair smattering of traits, but like your Ds, he has never cooperated with professionals. When he was around 12/13 we even resorted to family therapy (which was pretty useless) due to his rage towards his brother (who is very easy going for someone with AS). He over-reacts to normal teenage issues sometimes but he has got a little more self aware and calms down faster (exams this year weren't a lot of fun though!). I would say that 12/13 was the worst and he has improved, sadly for him I have had to emotionally detach to a certain extent to be able to cope with his behaviour, this makes me sad and I think he would be upset if he realised.
Sadly, sometimes people with a few ASD traits can have just as hard a time, or even harder, than those with enough for a DX but teachers and professionals don't seem able to acknowledge this.
I also have a younger NT son ( my control child!) who has thrown his brothers' difficulties into relief).
I don't have any magic parenting solutions except to stay as calm as possible and never try to argue your point in the heat of the moment. Sometimes I have to wait until the next morning for a proper apology but it is worth it.

My 14yo DS can be like that. I think he needs more sleep but how do you make somebody sleep?

I suggest don't get caught in his games, do listen with sympathy when he's being honest about things he feels vulnerable about.

Contrary to what MRJJ says, he shouldn't have to "find his own way" with the bullying. He may be a little old for this book but do try it.

I would go to the school about the bullying. I was bullied at school, and never told anyone. It was just "how it was". I suffer from low self-esteem to this day. I honestly believe that people don't really like me, and I mustn't force myself on them. I have no real friends.

DH was also bullied at school. He became adept at slipping away and hiding in the loo during breaks. For 5 years. One day, walking home from school, he tried to work out how to break his own arm, so he wouldn't have to go in the next day. He also has issues into adulthood. We are in our 40s.

Please, don't "accept" there is nothing you can do for him. You have to fight his corner.

I would speak to the HOY, in confidence, and if you get no joy, seriously do consider another school. Or home ed. Don't let this be his childhood.

Don't worry, I won't accept that this is ok.
At risk of sounding like someone who constantly says "yeah, tried that, doesn't work", we have the bullies, bigmouth book and he has refused to read it. I have offered to read it to him, but he starts kicking off.

Wiggly - that is exactly what I feel is the problem with ds. I read in the SN boards that often siblings are a hair's breadth away from a problem (or words to that effect). I know he doesn't have ASD, I would never go down that route (he would never forgive me!), but I can't help spotting traits.

I went into school today and spoke to his hoy. They've referred him to the school nurse. Predictably, he has come home with an appointment and ripped it up, saying he won't go.

He wants everything to be hunky dory, but without having to put any effort in himself.

When he's happy and things are going his way, you don't get better than ds1, he's a delight. When he flips, it's very frustrating.

It is very difficult, numerous times I have felt teachers were humouring me, thinking I was looking for problems where there were none. Ds1, for most of his school career, has kept a very low profile, only kicking off at home. He has got more self aware as time has gone which has helped.
With DS1 his bark is worse than his bite, he often protests and refuses to do things but if I stay calm and reproach him later he will often cooperate. When he was younger he was offered help from learning support but refused, saying that was for "retards" (sorry for horrible language). "He wants everything to be hunky dory, but without having to put any effort in himself." this is very DS1, I have often wondered about Pathological Demand Avoidance but I am not brave enough to approach the doctor with such a controversial suggestion.

Funny you should mention PDA. We were advised to look at an overview for ds2, it doesn't fit at all though, however it fits ds1 to a T!

The only way we can get him to do something willingly is to tell him that we're going to an event (whatever it is), that he'll probably find it boring so he doesn't have to go, then tell dd about it. He'll then say he's going (because that's not what we want - he thinks!) and that's that.

He's come home tonight saying he's not happy.
I've pointed out that I can put things into place, school can put things into place. The only way anything is going to change is if he is part of it, ie going to the school nurse, talking to someone who can actually make a difference. Until that time, there's not a lot anyone can do. The ball is in his court.

Ds1 is going through a really rough time at the minute too, which means a knock on effect for the older dc. It's just shit all round.
I can't decide whether I'm looking forward to the holidays or not. It'll be good to not have school to worry about, but I'm going to be up to the ears in fighty children with no escape :o

I know what you mean, the holidays have already started here. It's ds1 and ds3 who wind each other up, DS3 seems to be planning on spending this holidays at his friends house! It has got easier now they are all old enough to go out independently. My AS DS2 is actually no bother at all but he managed to break his elbow at Easter, resulting in horrible complications and a three week stay in hospital that coincided with DS1's big exams! His arm doesn't work properly and we are having to travel to physio sessions, we also have the builders in. It is going to take me a while to recover too despite being quite tough these days. I have to work hard at stifling envy of friends with straightforward kids, it seems easier for them to have fun, we have fun of course it is just harder work to achieve.