URGENT: Careers advice, apprenticeships, staying in training til 18 - what do you think?

[carriemumsnet]

On a panel tomorrow talking about early careers advice. Obviously will be mentioning our Mumsnet mentoring and careers database - please fill your job in if you haven't already. But would love to know if your teen has had any useful careers advice at school? Has anyone mentioned apprenticeships as an alternative to university and are you considering that route or do you know anyone who has done an apprenticeship? Also what do you think of idea that everyone will have to stay in training or education til age 18 ?
Sorry for all questions but don't want to be giving answers based just on my three dcs and when I try and search apprentice on Mn you can guess what sort of threads I get!
Thanks in advance for your help

DS 14 had career's counselling and was shown various routes - university and apprenticeship. This happened becasue we were very worried about recent report and then the school suggest career counselling - it was good.

was that available to everyone and what did they say about apprenticeships? Did it make them sound appealing to you/your dc? My dd is 15 and at her "careers" fair there were a few universities, a law firm and various folks talking about snow boarding on your gap year

Year 10 dd went to a post 16 day last week, as did all local schools. But way too busy for kids to actually ask stall-holders any information so a bit useless really. Applications for our local sixth form college open shortly and they have had NO subject advice (school only goes to year 11 so teachers not really aware of finer detail of university requirements etc). So it's a bit rubbish really....

Oh just remembered - school has bought a generic web-based programme which they have given us the link for, but no actual face to face, personalised advice. You have to find out for yourself what options are out there locally.

I've been involved with doing sessions at a
A local school through inspiring futures website as a volunteer- great fun.

Agree inspiring the future brilliant organisation - recommend anyone signing up, wish my dd could access one of their events. Noone has mentioned apprenticeships. I know noone who has done one and noone who has had that mentioned as an option for their child - do you? Also do you think it's a good thing that children stay in education/training til 18?

Sorry, can't add much. Careers advice was rubbish when I was at school and was still rubbish for my DC a generation later. DC1 worked out for herself what she wanted to do (a fairly safe/obvious/traditional job). DC2 didn't know, so I thought through what would suit his skillset/personality, pulled some strings to get him work experience (which he enjoyed) and he is headed off in that direction.

They both did the route of A Levels / degree so can't comment about apprenticeships.

I'm all for education so in theory I would support pupils continuing to learn up to the age of 18 (and beyond - we should all do lifelong learning) but I'm not sure if this is about learning or keeping them off the unemployment statistics.

Hi, firstly a disclaimer as I am a Careers Adviser so this is a subject close to my heart as you can imagine. Careers Advice in this country has been decimated over the past few years. I have seen unprecedented number of colleagues being made redundant and not just in my area.

The government handed over the responsibility of careers advice to individual schools. Schools are now responsible for contracting their own impartial guidance worker. The government has not made any additional money available for this to happen. As you can imagine some schools are doing this and providing face to face guidance, some schools are simply signposting to websites and some schools are doing nothing. Ofsted have recently conducted an investigation into careers guidance in school and it came out very poor across the country. In the school which I work in, I used to be allocated 3 days a week, now the school can only afford to buy in 1 day a week. There is no way in which I can see all the students which I used to and because they are buying in our service, I see only the students which the school tells me to, generally those who they do not want to return to 6th form. A lot of the advice which students receive is to continue into 6th form, they only offer Level 3 programmes which obviously are not right for everyone. I would say that the majority of students which I see have 'heard' about apprenticeships but haven't got a clue what they are, how they work, how to apply for one or where to look.

In addition to A level programmes, further education colleges, residential colleges and apprenticeships, there is also the Study programme and traineeships which are available to students. It would be interesting to see how many students have heard of all of these.

In term of education until 18, again the schools are using this as a recruitment drive for 6th forms. I think it is good to remain within education but as long as students realise that this does not have to be within a school setting.

A careers fair is easy to set up and meets a schools duty on delivering careers advice - pretty poor IMO.

As an adviser, I ask questions about them as an individual, the home life, outside interests, education lessons, career choices and challenge them to what they know about the career - most students can't tell me how much money they might earn, although they know they need to achieve 5 A-C grades including English and Maths.

Unison has done some work around this as have the Institute of Careers Guidance. Might be worth having a chat with them if you want to find out facts and figures.

One final plea - please remember that one school might offer a fab careers programme from yr 8 upwards and another will do nothing. If you are going to be choosing a school in the future, ask them what their policy is and what do they currently offer. If your DC is going through this process now then ring the school and request a face to face appointment with the careers adviser for the school. If they don't have one, ask them to arrange one - it will be interesting to see what the response of head teachers are.

Ofsted report

unison report according to this one -

Baroness Hughes of Stretford raised a point made by UNISON in a pre-debate briefing, that Ofsted, the education committee, the British Chambers of Commerce and the CBI had all criticised the government for its "hands-off approach" to careers guidance.

She also alluded to UNISON's concerns about the government's push toward a more localised careers service when she asked the minister whether it would act to "eradicate the postcode lottery in careers guidance" and ensure that there was "face-to-face advice for all young people".

Lord Nash said that the government did not have the money to do this and that it was an "outmoded" idea to think face-to-face guidance was necessary.

Nice try lambrini. Careers advice was poor before cuts in our experience.

good post headless

When the gov't decided that local authorities would stop providing (state) schools with careers guidance a few years back (the demise of Connexions etc), and handed over the provision of careers IAG to schools, they took a huge gamble.

I was a freelance careers advisor for a couple of years off the back of that change. Different schools handle careers guidance very, very differently.

I worked for one school that got it right: 1:1 careers guidance interviews for every pupil in yr 9 (for GCSE options), yr 10 (work experience) and yr 11 (post-16 options); a professional careers advisor (me!) devising and delivering a programme of careers education for all Yr 10/11 pupils; the school involving me in parents evenings, special assemblies etc and open to my ideas (e.g. We set up a programme of careers education for pupils who were not on target to get 5 Cs or above at GCSE, and another for young people who didnt want to go to university); careers education embedded in to the PHSE curriculum for Yrs 9/10; good employer engagement and innovative ways of embedding careers ed.

This all costs money, though. Many schools dont invest in proper careers IAG, or leave it to an unqualified member of staff (often a PHSE teacher or 6th form coordinator). Some schools I worked for gave their Yr 10/11s one or two assemblies or group sessions on post-16 options and that was that. Unacceptable.

Careers guidance was patchy before the cuts. The Connexions service, although fantastic in some respects, did not provide a professional, quality service in many areas. Many advisors were only NVQ 3 qualified (as are most of the National Careers Service telephone advisors now). Careers guidance is not seen as a a proper profession, akin to teaching, when it should be. I did a PGDip and then completed a Masters in CG. I think that should be the industry standard (I know many FE colleges are moving towards having all careers advisors at Level 6 - but what of schools?).

The real worry is that careers advisors, now being employed directly by the school, cannot be truly impartial (or will struggle to maintain impartiality and confidentiality - central tenets of the profession). I was under huge pressure to guide bright Yr 11s towards staying on at their school's 6th form, rather than considering all options, for example.

We have apprentices at work (3 a year normally) who spend their first year on block release at college, coming to the factory in college holidays, then more time at work in the other years. It seems to work out well for them as they are then qualified electro mechanical engineers, and most stay with us. Many people higher up started as apprentices, so they can see that it isn't a dead end, cheap labour scheme too.

One of my nephews chose not to be in education between 16-18 (he knew the course he wanted to be on at 18), but got an amazing amount of education opportunities via McDonalds and I was suprised how keen they were to offer everyone the chance to do these.

Another nephew is the first to have to stay in education post 16, and it has been good for him as he would have had no numeracy acheivement, and college has offered him the chance to sort this out while doing a basic IT qualification. He wouldn't have chosen to stay on, but is enjoying it now, and as a school refuser/ avoider I think it may have given him a second chance

It's no good saying they have to stay in training till 18 if they don't do anything about it though. Several of DD's friends 'dropped out' (age 16) and do nothing at all, nobody responded to it at all.

I am absolutely furious about the careers advice my son has received to be quite honest. He is going into upper school transfer next year so has to have a fair idea for gcse options etc. They suggested he become a car mechanic. I have nothing wrong with car mechanics and he can be one if that's what he wants but gas never shown an interest, but he was a level 8a in maths at the beginning of year 7, which is extremely high, all his other levels are high. He wants to do something in maths (accountancy he says, but he's young anyway) and the careers advisor has told him he is not bright enough! I think I an going to complain, I am that angry. I thought they were supposed to inspire children to aspire to more?

Cmotdibbler, my friends niece is a manager for McDonald's, started there from school. They have trained and treat her extremely well.

Sorry about my English in that post, it makes me look like I need to go back to school!

DS1 in a sixth form college and DS2 in Y11.
Both places have given apprenticeships a very high profile as an alternative to university.
I think there is a place for proper apprenticeships but so very many of them are no better than the old YTS and it's a risky strategy for a DC who is academically able.

How did it go? I'm afraid I saw this too late, but dd does an advanced apprenticeship - seems to be working well for her. She had no advice about them from school as I think they expected her to do A levels and go to university as her GCSEs were top notch, but she's actually much more practically minded so I think the apprenticeship suits her better.