Teenage girls!

[NikNox41]

Hi all,

Bit of background - I am stepmum to a 15 year old girl, who lives with us (3 years now). I am mum to two boys, aged 21 and 25. SD's mum is alcoholic and she is in regular counselling for this, has had much input with regards to this and is very well supported. She has a fantastic boyfriend, and good friends. She has to be encouraged to be sociable, but it's not too much of a problem. She is a very keen amateur dramatist, takes part in school productions and productions locally outside of school.

My issue is that I find she's very negative, morose even, for no apparent reason. She doesn't 'like' anything, and any suggestions we make, in response to her moaning about something, are always met with 'I don't like it' or 'I don't want to'. For example, she got in from school today and said she hadn't slept much last night. I advised no coffee this evening, and suggested a nice warm bath and a book before bed. This was met with 'I don't like baths and I don't like reading'. She's always loved reading! I then suggested her iPod comes out of her room earlier than usual (she has to bring all electronic devices out of her room at 8pm) so there's no stimulation, and this was met with 'that's not the reason I can't sleep'. Yesterday we all went to my mum's for Mother's Day tea, with my brothers and partners etc., so there was quite a crowd, and all she did was moan saying 'I don't like' to practically everything that was mentioned! She decided, during the meal, that she 'doesn't like' chicken anymore, nor baked potatoes, nor salad, so just ate crackers. This evening when she asked me what was for tea and I told her sausages, she said 'I don't like sausages anymore'. I told her she did like sausages, that this was what we're having for tea and she can eat what we're eating as I'm not cooking for her separately.

I can honestly say, hand on heart, that my boys were never like this!! I appreciate she has her issues with her mum, but the negativity all the time is wearing me down too!! She told me that she's a 'negative' person, and I told her that if that's what she believes then she must make the effort to be more positive.

Any suggestions?

The only thing I would say is not to 'rise' to it and to keep repeating the mantra "It's only a phase, It's only a phase"

Seriously though, it does sound a fairly typical thing - my 15 yr old dd has started being like this some of the time - they'll come out the other side.

I agree - this is a normal phase for many 15YOs. And I agree that it's very wearing. Some teenagers argue with everything - this is similar - sort of rejecting your efforts.

Don't try to talk her round, just be vague and non-committal.

My DD was horrified at the idea of having an early night when she was tired until she turned 17. It's almost a badge of honour to be seen with bags under your eyes at school apparently. They think that early nights are only for very boring people unfortunately.

I wouldn't let her complain about being tired when you know she hasn't had enough sleep - through her own choice - though. If she complains you could just say something briskly like 'Yes, you must be exhausted after so little sleep'.

You could possibly try pointing out that she won't look attractive when she's exhausted, but if she's anything like plenty of other teenagers she won't pay any attention.

If she complains about her meals I'd just ignore it. She could choose sometimes though.

Your post will strike a chord with many MN-etters!

I agree, it is a phase that will pass, but it is just so so wearing. The best thing to do is just ignore it - the less attention you give it, the less it will persist. It's hard though. I found with my DD when she did the whole 'I don't like...' or telling me that she was a particular type of person that I would just say 'oh ok' with the same disinterest as though I were looking at a new washing up bowl. DD found this unsatisfactory and now (at nearly 18) she is like it occasionally but it is mostly gone.

Thanks guys. Girls are so much harder than boys (in my experience anyway!), and because she does have issues, understandable ones, I do wonder what's going on. Problem is she has self-harmed, and we always worry that if we tell her off (which we do) or don't let her have her own way, she could well go up into her bedroom and cut herself. But, you can't walk on eggshells with a teenager in the house - there has to be boundaries. I found the Bio Oil (which I bought and put in the bathroom cabinet) out this morning, so I'm wondering if there are some fresh cuts. She never cuts deeply, they're just superficial scratches really, but still, it's not very nice and not very nice to think we may have caused her to harm herself by simply being 'parents'. We don't tend to ask her if she's harmed, because her Hidden Harm Worker advised us not to and encouraged her to tell us if she has, but I think I might try and get a sneaky look at her arms!

Just this afternoon she called me at work, at 2pm, and said that she was having an 'anxiety' attack at school. She said she was shaking and felt weak and tired and said she thought she ought to go home. I told her that was fine if it was okay with her teachers, but that she should go home and go to bed (she said she hadn't slept last night either). She said 'oh I can't go to bed because my boyfriend is coming round'. I said to her that if she went home from school sick then there was no way her boyfriend was coming round!! She groaned and said 'that's not fair', but I stuck to my guns and told her it was her choice - if she stayed at school her boyfriend could come round, if she went home sick he couldn't. She hung up on me!! She text me about half an hour later saying she was staying at school. I got home at 3, just as she was getting home, and she was absolutely fine!!!! She went upstairs, got changed and went out with her chap and has just got in full of beans!!

I guess this is all a learning curve. We always knew we would get the difficult years when she decided to come and live with us three years ago. Little did we know it would be quite so taxing!!

She does quite often refer to herself as being 'anti-social', 'socially awkward', having 'depression and anxiety', being 'paranoid', but rarely actually shows outward signs of any of these conditions (apart from the self harm, but even that seems to be quite 'normal' amongst her peers!), and I do just tend to brush these statements off with 'oh well, never mind' or similar. It's such hard work!! Give me boys any day of the week ;)

You sound like you handled this afternoon really well OP - it is so hard isn't it? I think some of the problems nowadays are due to fb, twitter etc in that their lives are played out for all to see and this enhances the 'drama-queenness'.

Fantasea, you are so right! All my friends who have daughters the same age agree too. It's taking over their lives and they're losing social skills because of it. Girls, I'm learning, are far more dramatic than boys anyway, more 'flouncy' and animated, so dramas that start off in school carry on throughout the evening, and probably all night if they could! We insist her iPod and phone are downstairs at 8pm every night, except for weekends, and we insist that she socialises face to face with people at least twice a week and on weekends, otherwise she would never leave the house! We are usually met with 'but how am I going to text my boyfriend if my phone's downstairs?'. Answer - you won't die from not texting him for a few hours!! Goodness me, when I was her age our landline had a lock put on it before 6pm, and we were only allowed to use the phone for a very short time, say 10 minutes. So, we went out and hung out with our friends, probably got up to some mischief but nothing serious. It was fun, especially in the summer months. But if you suggest hanging out in the park on a Summer's evening now they look at you as if you're mental!!! They would far rather sit on their bed staring at a 4" screen for hours on end!!! Well, not in this house! Fresh air and face to face socialising has to be better for them!

I blame Social Media for a lot of today's teens problems, and it's getting worse!

Nik yes you are right - when we were teenagers, if we had a disagreement at school, as soon as we went home we were out of communication until the next day, by which time it had blown over and we had all moved on. Now they are in contact with each other all day long (and most of the night too) so it just gets whipped up, more people get drawn into the most petty of arguments and they discuss it endlessly. I think this makes the girls much more 'flouncy' and self-righteous, I agree.

I only have a girl so have no personal experience of boys, but from what DD tells me the boys she has as friends are much less bothered about getting involved in all these petty strops - this doesn't stop her though!

If you are getting the phone and iPod downstairs at 8pm you still have good control.

Is your DD in her gcse year? This could account for some of the flouncing - my DD still gets bad around exam time.

It is so hard, but honestly, a neutral brisk stance will see you through a lot of the angst.

Good luck .

"neutral brisk stance" - that's a great way of putting it.

Also - old-fashioned, but helpful - keep 'em busy doing constructive things; sports, music, voluntary work, dancing etc.

choc thank you - I should add that I've had a lot of practice doing this!

I'm still practising! It didn't come naturally but I'm improving.

choc It doesn't come naturally to me either! My DD is nearly 18 and even now when she starts I want to say 'oh no, don't do that because then this will happen, or that, or both....' but instead I bite my tongue and say 'oh that sounds nice' with as little interest as I can.

Nik another thing that happened to me when DD was 15/16 would be that she would want to go on outings where I was concerned for her safety and many heated discussions occurred between us and I worried myself silly. With hindsight I can say that 9 times out of 10 these 'plans' fell through - teenagers are great at cooking up elaborate outings but often without adults to help organise/pay for things, they never come to fruition. So, when you first get wind of some outing which you are uneasy about, keep well out of any suggestions/discussions/help to begin with. Save your thunder for the unlikely day they do manage to get it organised.

Nik my DD is only 3 so I have no idea at all. But I read your post, and it struck me that when your SD said to you 'I got no sleep last night', you offered (sensible and practical!) suggestions but didn't ask why (or at least didn't say so in your post.) What I am wondering is if your SD was looking for an opening to talk about something, instead of the practical solutions you offered?

Fantasea I am SO going to remember your advice re these fantastical plans and outings that don't come to fruition.

So true - I'm very proud of myself for managing to just say, 'Oh right' when 16YO DD told me she was planning to go youth hostelling - transport being provided by her new (18YO) friend and his van - I knew it probably wouldn't happen. And it didn't .

It's so frustrating when they persist in unhelpful behaviour like staying awake till ridiculously late though. It certainly won't help her mood.

My experience is of 14-16 being the most difficult stage in terms of teenagers being 'moody', argumentative, difficult to please and grumpy.

If you can manage to resist pointing out their unreasonableness most of the time, you're more likely to make them feel they can tell you about the things that are really bothering them.

choc Yes, I would agree that age 14-16 being the worst ages for being moody, flouncy and grumpy. I also agree that if you can keep on good terms, they are more likely to tell you about things which are bothering them.

Nik some of the things they will tell you (happening to themselves or their friends - usually at parties) will make your hair curl, but keep the same neutral expression and don't over-react, even if inside you are thinking omg. I would take your DD's lead here - my DD has told me things which she has found shocking so I am a 'little bit' shocked too, not too much though, as I don't want to be unapproachable.

Yup - that's it - sometimes they're running things by you - if it's just a trivial gossipy incident/perceived unfairness from a strict teacher/or similar it's best not to fan the flames by reacting very much at all, but they'll be reassured if you agree with them that x wasn't nice/fair/safe etc without adding to the drama by going on about it or 'exclaiming'

But it's hard.

Thanks guys,

chocoluvva - my boys used to have 'plans' that often fell through, so I'm pretty used to that. But, when my eldest decided he would like to go to London with a friend to see the Red Hot Chilli Peppers and actually bought the tickets I panicked!!! I have to admit that I did organise the train, youth hostel, printed out directions from the hostel to the venue and printed off a tube map!! I couldn't rest until they'd arrived, but they managed and managed well. Phew! But, my SD is far less able than him to do anything by herself - she doesn't really have any concept of time, and when she has gone to other towns by train etc (not far, just 5-10 miles), more often than not she misses the train home and we have to go get her!! I do also downplay any dramas, switch off to a certain extent and try to ignore the flouncing!

Fantasea she's year 10 so it's mocks this year, so yes, that could account for some of the moods. She doesn't like her iPod and phone coming downstairs at 8, but she doesn't get a choice. I also plan to switch the internet off next week because I'm working the first week of the Easter hols and hubby's just started a new job so can't take any leave, so she's not tempted to sit in her room on her iPod all day! Again, she won't like it, but she won't get a choice. I am quite strict I suppose, but only about important things. I parent her the same way I parented my boys, well kind of, and they've turned out more than okay. She does open up though, which is good, and did openly tell me that her and her boyfriend had been 'experimenting' with intimacy. I was shocked, but not overly (you expect it, don't you?), and she did ask about contraception so we got all that sorted. I've always told her she can talk to me about anything and I won't scream and shout, or judge her, which has been important bearing in mind her life with her mum, which was chaotic and abusive and she was also neglected. I was the same with my boys, both were open and were encouraged to be so. I've always maintained that with kids you should occasionally give them an inch, but don't let them take the mile! It's just the negativity and moods I find hard, because boys just aren't like that. If they get upset or angry about something it's usually very short-lived, over and done with, but girls seem to be able to drag it out for much much longer.

oh good I did ask her if she wasn't sleeping for any reason, and asked if she was upset about her mum (she hasn't seen her for a year), or if there were problems with her boyfriend, but she just said she couldn't sleep so I don't think there's anything bothering her per se.

I do sometimes wonder if she does/says things just to get attention? Like the ridiculous phone call yesterday an hour before school finished!!!

Nik the fact that she can share such private things with you indicates the level of trust she has in you, so you must have a very strong relationship.

Now my DD is older, even she has commented on how boys she is now friends with (in year 13) get over things very quickly whereas some girls still want to moan on and on about things endlessly! Now that is irony .

I think a lot of things are done to seek attention at this age. When DD was particularly scratchy and was spoiling for a fight with me, with my calm neutral exterior she found this very unsettling and would try all sorts of tactics to try and get me to engage in her row, but I would just hold my ground with expressions like 'oh yes, you said' and 'yes, I know'.

It is hard and frustrating though, I do understand.

NikNox you sound like a really brilliant step mum.
I teach 14-16 yo girls and this attitude sounds very typical. That you can stick by the no tech after 8pm rule shows that she respects your firmness. She will massively thank you for your support one day.

Thank you again guys. I do my best for her - she hasn't really got a 'mother' in the normal sense of the word, and I've known her since she was 2. Unfortunately we were unable to get her out of her mother's home because (a) Social Services weren't interested (b) a residence case, which we probably wouldn't have won because there is a half-sibling too who also lived with mother, would have cost over 10k (not that the cost is the reason, but our Solicitor advised us we would be very unlikely to win and (c) SD felt responsible for her mum, and was basically her mum's and half-sibling's carer (very common in children of alcoholics). So, all we could do for 10 years was provide a safe haven on weekends and in the holidays, somewhere that life was normal. When she got to 12 she just couldn't take any more and when we had her for a weekend said she wanted to stay and refused to go back. So, that was that, and because she was 12 at the time and able to make her own decision there was nothing her mum could do. We applied for residence immediately ourselves (very easy) and won at the first hearing because mum couldn't even be bothered to turn up and fight for her!!

Since then I've obviously had to step up to the mark, and we always knew that her childhood would affect her detrimentally because it always does. Children of alcoholics only really suffer when they realise that life with the alcoholic wasn't normal. At the time, whilst they're young, they think it's normal for their parent to drink at breakfast time, and so we had to wait until she 'saw' for herself what situation she was in. In some ways, and I don't mean this selfishly, I kind of feel cheated, because we've got her during her teenage years, which are always, as I'm learning, difficult for girls, but we've also got the alcoholic part causing her difficulties too. So, I feel cheated because if we'd had her live with us many years ago we could have avoided that part of her angst so to speak. But, hey ho, it's as it is and we've got to get on with it. She will come through it, we're determined about that, but I just need help and advice occasionally because I am mother of two boys, and as we've established, they are so very different :)

Poor little girl - that is a sad story to read.

You sound so kind and caring and she truly is lucky to have you. I can understand what you mean about feeling cheated as you got her at a very difficult age, but all credit to you for managing so well now.

Teenage girls are hard - my best friend (who's DD is 18) and I were out the other day and we bumped into a mutual friend who's DD is just coming up to 13 - she was saying how hard it was becoming to deal with her. My best friend and I made soothing noises and when she had gone said to each other in unison 'there's a lot worse to come'.

*whose not who's

Fantasea, thank you, it is sad but it's how it is and we have to do our best. Today she has driven me to distraction because she text to ask if she could dye her hair, so I agreed a natural colour such as brown (she's bleached blonde at the moment). Then she said could she dye it red. I said no. She then went on and on about how it was the holidays and she could dye it a normal colour before school starts again, that she wouldn't die from having it red and I was stopping her from expressing herself!! I still said no, because we did allow her to use a wash in wash out red dye once and all it did was turn her hair ginger, she cried and hated it and it wouldn't wash out!! But she kept on and on, and then said she wanted to get her septum pierced too. I text her back and said enough was enough, the answer was no and if she carried on she wouldn't be allowed to dye it at all. My phone hasn't stopped bleeping with text after text saying "why?". I'm not going to text her back again, she's been told and that's that. Thankfully my husband agrees. I remember when my youngest son was 16 and in the summer holidays he wanted his hair bleached, so we allowed it. He hated it, and never asked to do it again. Neither of my boys wanted piercings or anything like that when they were her age (my eldest has a tattoo, but he's 25!). I'm not sure I'm too happy to read you say 'there's a lot worse to come'. I might move out for a couple of years!
:)

Nik you have my sympathy - it is so hard when they go on and on. You are right to hold your ground. I remember when DD was in year 10, I had to take her to school for something (about half an hour journey) and was going on and on all the way there about something I wouldn't let her do and it was 'so unfair' and 'everyone else can'. I had a good reason for each counter-argument she came up with and she got more and more annoyed. In the end, we were nearly at school and she said 'tell me why I can't do xxx' and in sheer frustration I turned into my own mother and said 'BECAUSE I SAID SO'. Not very original but it stumped her for a minute .