Kicked out of college

[Rhinosaurus]

Re posted here from Chat:

DS, 17 in March left school with D in English GCSE. He had been accepted on a course at college but was told due to new government rules he also had to retake English to get a C.

Despite the college and us stressing the importance of going to all lessons at college he started skipping English, and then other lectures. After a meeting with college and him things improved, however he slipped back into this.

We would get him up,when we went to work, he would be waiting for the college bus - as soon as we left he would double back into the hous and go back to bed!

College have finally kicked him out after a solid 2 week block of absences. He doesn't seem bothered. We get him up at 8am when we go to work as we don't see why he should stay in bed all day. He is given some chores to do ie empty dishwasher, Hoover, walk dog in return for his CB every week (which we have been giving him for last year - he has a moped to run out of that), but he is refusing to do this so has had no money this week.

He is not making any effort to find a job, or to go to the job centre. He will be limited to manual jobs due to his lack of qualifications, and feels these are "beneath" him. We don't know why he is like thus as our older two are very focused and have a good work ethic.

We have something similar to,connections, I left a message on Wednesday and they haven't got back yet. I know funding there has been cut also and one worker covers a huge area so might get a callback eventually.

We have looked at apprenticeships, most of them are catering although he did show an interest in motor mechanics he has no experience and they all stipulate experience.

There was a job for a KP at a local pub which he could have gone for, as something to do whilst sorting things out but he turned his nose up at it.

I don't know if we should try to get him back into,education, and whether they only intake in September, he mentioned he wanted to do photography but he has never shown an interest before and I suspect this is because he thinks it's an easy option and all he will do is take photographs all day!He was doing a vocational course, I know absolutely photography is very academically demanding, but as he is a teen - I don't know what I am talking about!!

Has anyone had a teen like this, or experience of what we should try and do to motivate him? If we just leave him to his own devices he would sleep all day and watch tv all night..

Well first of all if he isn't in ft education you are fraudulently claiming cb for him....so he needs to buck up and work out how he's paying for his precious scooter etc, let alone financing his food and share of the bills!

(I'm happy to pay to keep my kids IF they are in education otherwise they need to at least make an effort to contribute - either get a job and pay some money, or as the eldest does in the uni holidays, make my life easier by doing some cleaning and household jobs...)

There are probably still some seasonal jobs to get had, he needs to get out there with a cv, and do a job he's "qualified for" . Hopefully a few weeks handing out leaflets, washing up in a pub, or if he's lucky burger flipping and he'll see why it's worth getting a few qualifications!

(And burger flipping or washing up in a pub could be actually entry level jobs to moving up the ladder too..)

Usual caveat before I get flamed - I assume no special needs and not depressed?

He was only kicked out last week, So I am not fraudulently claiming anything:

From CB website: If your child is aged 16 or 17, and has left education or training that counted for Child Benefit, you may be able to get these extra weeks. To qualify, your child needs to be registered with any of the following - known as 'qualifying bodies':
in England - the local careers service, Connexions or local authority support service
in Scotland or Wales - the local careers service
in Northern Ireland – the careers service of the Department for Employment and Learning, or an Education and Library Board
the Ministry of Defence, for example if your child is waiting to join HM Forces
a similar organisation to others in this list in any European Economic Area Country
You need to have been entitled to Child Benefit for your child immediately before the start of the extension period.
You won’t qualify for the extension if 20 weeks have already passed since your child left education or training that counted for Child Benefit.

I am getting him registered at connexions, and apparently have 20 weeks to,do that. Hopefully they will call back before 20 weeks!

No special needs, in fact he left primary as the student with the highest sats, and entered secondary school into the top groups, then followed a slow,decline as he refused to do work, messed around, generally wanted to socialise not work.

There are seasonal jobs in hotels restaurants etc and apprenticeships in catering, which he refuses point blank to consider - he seems unable to link his poor efforts at education with the poor choice of jobs available,

OU is out due to his poor motivation. Like the poster above I was happy to support him whilst attending college, but not while he is doing nothing.

He goes back into education or gets a job. Don't give him money. If he isn't job searching then he doesn't need to use the scooter.
Most of your post is about what you should do. He's nearly 18. It's time he started taking action.
(Harsh parent emoticon!)

X post. So this is part of a history of him being allowed to mess about? Time to put an end to it.

No effort = no money + no food. Simples. You work or you don't eat. Nothing hard for him to grasp about that. Remove scooter, money, privileges, let him work it out for himself.

Wolfieman, believe me we have tried everything to get him to make the most of his education, as have his school - it's like banging your head against a wall. He was warned over and over again that college would not put up with stuff like school did, and the college actually tried really hard to engage him.

My Daughter started College in September, about half of her class have left or been asked to leave, and they are having another intake in January, so he could get on another course maybe? It is a hard shift from school to college my son did what your son did and stopped going and got kicked out. He is now at another college doing an access course. When my son left i stopped giving him any money at all, stopped paying for his phone and took the wifi router with me when i went to work, no way was i having him sitting around playing games all day, he got a job hated it and then when back to college. I think its time or some tough love starting with christmas presents maybe?

Wolfieman, he is currently 16 - 17 in March.

Also i though legally they had to stay in education now until they were 17?

Teenagetantrums - love the idea of taking the router to work, maybe also the sky viewing card.......

Teenagetantrums, I don't think they are entitled to any unemployment benefits until 17, and if they go to FE have to retake English/maths if they have not got a grade c.

It's also a question of whether the same/another college would take him with his poor attendance record.

16 or 17 regardless. I'm afraid you say you have warned and college has tried. What consequences has he actually had? He seems to have been allowed to mess about/neglect his work for a long time. He needs clear consequences.
It's wofieFAN BTW!

I agree with Theas.

I teach this age, and so many teenagers (esp boys) are lazy and irresponsible at this age. However, what I do see is the difference between those whose parents let them get away with it, and those whose parents give them a real hard time, so they come back the following year focussed and working hard.

As Thea says, if he's not in education, you're not entitled to child benefit any more, so that needs to stop. Stop giving him any money.

He's a grown up, if he wants money he needs to earn it. Don't give him anything, and if he is living at home, he needs to pay rent. My parents always charged us 10- 15% of what we had including dole money (when not in fte). I think this is a good principle, even if you don't need the money.

I've always worked, even though in full time education, because my parents expected me to pay my own way. At one point, I was at Uni and managing my own department in a shop. I never felt hard done by because of it, but knew when you became an adult, you had to take responsibility. My DH on the other hand, had parents who were the opposite. He lost his job, and had parents who just let him stay at home. Sure, they nagged him to do something, but whenever he needed cash, it was given to him. Therefore, he put up with the nagging, because it was an easy life. He's the first to admit that it did him no favours at all, and has said he would never let our children get away with that.

If you facilitate him, by giving him money, then nothing will change. But, if he has no cash, he will get fed up with not being able to go out with mates, not able to run his moped etc.. and (hopefully) he will change things. Tough love is often best I think.

Of course, easier said than done, and I've not reached this stage with my own children yet, so what do I know. Very little! But, it's just my observations that the students I teach whose parents facilitate their laziness do not change, but those whose parents don't accept it and give them a hard time, do seem to grow up more quickly, and come back more focussed and hard working. Just my observations though.

Sorry Wolfiefan - damn autocorrect - it tried to call you woodie man at first lol

At the moment the only consequence is he is not getting any money. He has said he took hismCV around to several hotels, but I am not sure if I believe him, for one thing hismCV is from when he was at school,prior to gcse results and for another I didn't seem him print any out.

Any talks with have had with him results in him sitting there going okay, okay, okay, okay.....

Had some good advice on here and chat, will chase up connexions, and student services at college, will also look at princes trust.

is there any chance college will let him with another course? can you talk to the college and see if there is anything else they can suggest, my ds dropped out and the sixth form pointed him in the direction of a charity run and government funded or somehting place which relaly helped him, got him another course, got him a job, experience and a CV. and he was able to listen to them more than us

Haha at woodie man!
Don't talk. Act!
Or rather stop acting. No washing. No cooking. No cleaning stuff for him. No access to computer. No cash. No ferrying round.
Sorry if I sound really harsh but I am a teacher who gets so sick of teens like this being allowed to just do nothing. (Thinking of one case at the moment in particular.) This is just pushing my buttons this morning.

Your son sounds just like mine was at that age, they agree and then ignore you , to be honest you cant force him to do anything, im glad mine came round in the end and went back to education, but i think that was more to do with seeing his friends go of to uni and have a life while he as stuck here with nothing to do and stuck in a dead end job. Does your son have the confidence to go and give out C.V's or is he just scared to do it and telling you what he thinks you want to hear? Looking back when my son dropped out of college he was a bit lost and not sure how to do the things he wanted to do, although the no money and tough love thing worked for me after a few months i do think maybe i could have steered him a bit better and straight back into education.

We do act, but I have to admit sometimes it makes me feel really bad. When at school he was literally to the point of having absolutely nothing in his room and had to earn it all back.

He has not had any money off me. Last night he was after money and I almost gave in, as I am currently unwell but didn't. He was told that if he has no money to go out he should stop in. He got really rude to me, DP started shouting and it all just ends up upsetting everyone except my son, who,seems oblivious.

Hi I am so sorry you are going through this with your don. It does seem to be fairly common. I dont know why its almost as if kids this age sometimes loose any drive or enthusiam.

So you dont feel so alone in this you may like to know my level 2 course of 27 in September is now 16. 8 of which have been booted off for attendance issues.

I am not sure of the answer. I do find some students stay for the lectures they like then dont bother with the rest and as for the newly added on numeracy and communications hardly any bother to turn up to these until forced as they dont see it as part of the course they signed up for.

Hopefully connexions will get back to you.

It may be the course was not what he expected (this is very common) although sometimes I do wonder what exactly they did expect. It may be a good time for his to take stock and think about another course for next September. For example if he says he wants to do photography he can apply but say he needs to show you he has an interest in photography. Ask him what he actually thinks the photography course entails and what he thinks it will lead to at the end of it. I dont know that much about the photography courses but a friend has done one and it was not a walk in the park. They still have assignments to write about their subject matter and why they pictured this that and the other in that mode etc. The courses also have a lot on the computer side of things such as glorified photoshopping etc. Again the reality I expect on a college course will be writing this up in assignment format. Perhaps talk to the college about what the course entails - the boring bits as well as the "fun" bits.

See what he thinks then.

Good luck

I have seen a get into course on princes trust, and also a team programme which might suit him, one starting jan 6th. The trouble is his attitude and shaking him out of this lethargy - the getting up is a big issue so the router will be removed at11pm every night, and only go back when we get home from work next day.

I need to get him registered with connexions, and also,take him to students services at his college. I am saying I, as if it is left to him nothing will happen. Not having money is already beginning to pinch him, so I may put a financial reward in the mix. I have already registered with apprenticeships.

It looks as though CB will continue for 20 weeks if he is registered with a careers service, and I have to notify CB within the next 3 months that he has left college.

I have suggested the services but he is not interested, so doubtful he would pass an interview.

Another thing is, when college phoned about kicking him out they said during an English mock he had to write a letter of complaint, which he did full of extreme swear words and inappropriate aggressive language. Very embarrassing. When we asked him what he was thinking he just shrugged and said he was bored whilst writing it. He seemingly didn't see what was wrong with doing that or using foul language.