Report looks bad - what does it mean?

[Palika]

Not being English and not knowing the school system very well - what does DS14 first report of year 10 mean?

All his predicted GCSE grades are Cs and Ds - does that mean he is not 'university material'? He wants to be an academic engineer - is that pie in the sky?

The comments say that he is immature, has a bad work ethic and does not focus.

Part of me wants to say - it is what it is and give up. Just accept that he is not as clever and motivated as the rest of the family and live with it.

Another part thinks - I could monitor his homework more closely - make sure he works harder - get him a tutor...

BUT I have done that virtually all the time since he shows signs of not achieving very well - and clearly it has not worked.

YET - last year he achieved a level 7 in math - his tutor was so excited that he emailed me. He said that it is a clear sign that he IS intelligent and that he can get good grades if he puts his mind towards it.

Oh god, parenting is so difficult.
Please tell me, what do you tell yourself to come to terms with poor school achievement? How do you make yourself not mind so much?

I have DS just finishing first term of Year 11, so GCSE mocks looming just around the corner and the real thing in June next year.

I could pretty much have written your post this time last year and DS had mostly C predictions, one D and one B.

Somehow over the last year he has grown up a bit and worked out that if he puts in effort he can do it. He is currently predicted 2 As, and a mixture of Bs and Cs. The school say that they way they look at the predicted grade is "the grade DS will achieve if he continues to work at the current rate".

On that basis, if he is already putting in as much effort as he can, then a C or D is all he can achieve, but it looks from your post as if your DS, like mine, is coasting along and not really seeing the point of it all.

I think a number of factors worked for DS including a good careers session at school where they sat a profiling survey and had individual feedback so he had a sense of what he needed to achieve to do the course/get the job he wants, so he can see where it is all leading. Once he could see that the slog of doing GCSEs in a wide number of subjects, many of which he doesn't like and isn't naturally good at, was just a "facilitating step" towards what he really wants to do, he had a better attitude to it.

He had a couple of times where the did once really put the work in for revisin for a couple of tests and got marks in the 80s ( unheard of!) and the very positive reaction of his teacher and the fact that he got higher marks than some of his friends in higher sets made him believe in himself.

How does your son percieve his own ability? Does he feel that he is not clver, will never get these A grades or A* that the really bright keep going on about so he gives up? I realised that DS had a pretty low opinion of his own abilities, but that has started to change.

Boys do change a lot over the course of a year too- maturity has definitely helped. He has mocks in January and he has asked me to help him set up a plan to revise in the holidays as he says he wants to do well in these mocks "so my teachers actually believe in me for once"!

So in summary I would say it is still early days yet so don't give up and don't let him give up- can you find out a bit more about careers/degrees in engineering and inspire him a bit with what is required to do that? Get him some work experience with an engineering company?

It sounds like his behaviour might be the issue. Those comments suggest that he's not trying, being lazy, and can be disruptive. (Sorry - and please note this is only a theory as obviously I've never met him!)

I would say that if he's getting Cs and Ds with very little effort, if he buckles down and starts doing some work he will pretty easily up those to Bs and maybe As. I would say it's probably not being bothered, rather than not being academic!

Don't give up now. Find ways to work with the school and suport and encourage your son. If his dream is to be an engineer, can you take hime places that would help him to understand more about what this involves (eg museums, technology entres) and then help him to see that hard work at school is essential to follow this dream.

Thank you so much for your posts - already feeling better.

Schoolchauffeur - we were always very encouraging and supporting to him - he is an only child and much loved.

He is very 'self-confident' and thinks the world of himself. He fancies himself as one of the physicists of the BigBang theory. But I think underneath there are growing doubts whether he is really up to a higher career path.

His uncle and grandfather and cousin are all physicists and he thinks that he could 'easily' do this as well. He also reads really difficult physics books (books about quantum mechanics for the general public - but difficult nonethesame). Also he constantly talks very knowledgeably about technical problems with his dad.

Yet - his predicted grade for physics is a meagre C, chemistry a B (the only B in his report) and biology a D

Clearly, if he stays at this level he is not up to study engineering at university, isn't he?

What do I do? Do I tell him the hard truth? Do I police his homework more (I think I won't - I so had enough!!)

I think the idea to take him to career councelling and let him hear from someone else that he is not up to much may make him change. (or not )

You know people don't fail at life at 16. Or 18. Or whatever age. If he wants to do something specific then leave him to it. Encourage, help, love praise, feed with chocolate.....but they are little adults and it is their life.

My ds1 was later maturing, was terrible at school but very clever. He has now at 21 come to his senses and is both a delight and a pleasure, and is really working hard and focused. I never thought he would be.

I guess what I am saying is you can only do so much, they have to want it themselves. You can't make them want it, or want it for them.

I don't think anyone ever told me parenting would be so bloody hard, painful, challenging.....rewarding.

mermaidbutmytail,
thanks for the advice. I am so glad it worked for you and your DS in the end. Yes, I know I can't make him - he has to want himself.

Do you also have some advice how to get emotionally through the time when they don't want? How did you cope with that?

I am ready to let go but I am quite sad right now.

Hi Palika. A friend of mine had some success with her DS by encouraging him to go online and research the grades required for him to achieve his university/career ambitions. I believe he got a shock when he realised that he wasn't anywhere near the calibre required, and raised his game accordingly.

Perhaps you could use the report as a catalyst for a discussion along those lines?

I think I would be telling him that, whilst you're disappointed with the predictions, you realise that it is his life and that, at 15-16, he really needs to find his self motivation if he is to do well. Then sit back, encourage and support accordingly, and hope hope hope that he sees the light.

Was he disappointed with the report too?

Do you think he might be not focusing and not trying at school because he's afraid of failing? I've seen it so many times in my students - they don't try because then they have an excuse when they don't achieve. It may be that he is afraid of not being clever enough to do what he wants to, so is deliberately (or subconsciously) sabotaging it. It might be worth trying to find out what other careers he'd be interested in so he has more than one option, so there's not as much pressure (though it sounds like the pressure is coming from him, not you).

I agree, I would be taking both the behaviour and D's/C's together and thinking that he was probably capable of better.

Do the school have any sort of mentoring system where an older male could start getting him more engaged with his learning and trying harder?

Just talked to the school and they say he needs 4 Bs to go to sixth form - let alone university. So, if he stays on the trajectory he is on at the moment he will have to leave school at sixteen.

English schools are soo good at protecting you from this hard truth - even the teacher that I talked to right now tried very hard not to tell me this. It makes me so angry - all this protecting and molly-coddling. I feel I have been deluded by the school and have also deluded myself all these years thinking that he will be up for university when he really wasn't...

I'll get over it...right now I feel very sad.

Hmmm, not so many jobs in the UK in Theoretical Physics, but there is a shortage of Engineers and many companies are training up their own workforce.

He might be more practical than academic, so start looking at options for apprenticeships. Look at the websites for all the engineering companies where you live. If he does do an apprenticeship and turns out to be university material in a couple of years time they will sponsor him through college.

He does need to pass GCSE Maths and English though with as good grades as he can get.

But do explain to him that BIG BANG THEORY is just a TV show and real life is not as fun as it seems on TV !

My husband left school at 16 with 2 O levels but he got an apprenticeship followed by an Enginering degree through day release at college and then later an Open University degree, and is now in a management position with an engineering company.

OP I think you get through it in the same way you did the cluster feeding and the tantrums and the not eating.....knowing it will pass.

I have talked to my ds recently about his teenage years and he has just shrugged and said if I had tried harder he would have rebelled more. For him it was a confidence issue, not trying gives permission to fail. But as I said earlier you can't fail at 16. Your life isn't set then, you still have options.

I employ a lot of staff in my job and I don't give a damn if someone got their degree at 21 or 51, it makes no difference.

superlambanana
I think it may very well be the case what you saying. DS has this persona of inflated confidence and beneath is this fear that he is stupid. I have talked about it with him on several occasions - he is aware of it.

But what does it change?

I think the report today is the worst I have ever got - it's certainly the most upsetting. When he was younger I still hoped he would grow up and mature (I still hope now) - but the time that he can change is getting much shorter.

About the pressure: I think it is normal to expect that your child broadly fits in with the achievements of the rest of the wider family. It certainly is not the end of the world if they end up a few levels lower.

But I have to say I am surprised how much it hurts. Maybe that is becasue he has such a bad learning attitude, that he does not try to make us proud that he does not work harder.

I still believe that he has the intelligence...I recently watched with him the BBC Doctor Who program about black holes and time travel. At some point I went to check my emails and lost the plot. DS could explain everything in minute details to me afterwards - and that was really difficult stuff...

It doesn't sound like school are being very supportive. What sort of school is it ? A large state school? Schools in the UK are usually keen to get good grades as it reflects on the school at least.
The start of year 10 is early days. He has plenty of time to raise his game. Have you spoken to him about his report ? Is the report quite a shock to you compared to last year's ?

I feel school should be advising you more. Can you afford a bit of 1 on 1 tutoring ? This can make a huge difference IME , some individual attention can really help understanding and confidence.

How do you feel about the comments re lack of focus and immaturity ? Does this fit with what you see? Is he disruptive in class ? Is there a chance this report can be a wake up call for him to try a bit harder?

I would also make a point of trying to keep In closer contact with the school from now. Can you email a tutor on a regular basis to be updated on his progress ? I find when school knows the parents care it can makes a difference don't wait until the next report as you can start losing time

Don't give up, you need to make sure he does his best whatever that may be and he does have plenty of time to catch up.

Claybury, yes, it is a large state school but one of the highest achieving in the country (pot luck). They do support us - DS has been put on a program called 'assertive mentoring' for underachieving students and we will receive monthly reports from now on.

The teacher said that they are very accurate with their GCSE predictions - they usually come true. Then he also said it's early days and things can change. When I asked him about this double message he could not explain himself.

The reports in previous years were not good either but everything was measured in levels and now everything is in letters - stupid stupid system - it seems to be designed to pull wool over eyes.

I never quite knew where DS was in terms of achievements, no matter how much I quizzed his teachers. Everyone was always so dam encouraging - nobody gave us the brutal truth that might have woken DS up a bit from his inflated confidence.

DS had a fair bit of tutoring over the years - I never felt it made the least bit of difference. He never asks for help either - becasue 'he knows everything'. I could easily help him with most subjects - or find ways to find the knowledge. He can't be bothered.

I see his lack of focus and immaturity all the time at home (that's why I am here on mumsnet - becasue it's driving me mad). But school never saw anything wrong with him - for them it was ok that he is a medium achiever.

At some point I diagnosed adhd and dyspraxia in him (when he was 10 and 7) and extensively worked with various forms of therapy on these problems. After 2 or 3 all the symptoms were gone but he is still immature.

Could he be afraid of not living up to (his own) expectations, and therefore afraid to try?

ie the kind of person who would rather say "well, of course I would have got straight As but I didn't really work" instead of "I worked really hard to get my 5As and 5Bs".

(a bit like all the 'bright but lazy' children I read so much about on here from some mums who somehow give the impression they think that is superior to my 'not bright but hardworking' child.)

Predictions will change each term as the GCSEs progress. So yes, maybe by Easter y11 the predictions will come true, but if he bucks his ideas up he should be able to beat the current predictions.

I see the main problem with ds as lazyness.

His whole childhood can be summarised into one sentence: fight against laziness.

Even when he was 3 years old he refused to walk up the stairs and rather screamed for hours - literally. When he was four and five I saw all these mums walking with their kids to school - my ds would have never done that. He would just drop to ground and refuse to walk.

Getting ready in the morning and evening took hours of dawdling and homework were hours of tears and tantrums. It really was a nightmare!!!!

Every child wants to play but with DS it seemed so compulsive and obsessive that it did not feel normal. Even now all he ever thinks and talks about are his games...

Anyway, I had a chat with him and broke the news of the abysmal report - he was genuinely shocked and screamed under tears that he will prove to me that he can do better.

Well then...I can't wait to see it happening! But until then I refuse to hear any more talk about becoming an engineer and will just rub it in that he can only become a car mechanic at the moment. (It's not that bad, is it? Working 8 hours a day in a cold garage being smeared with oil, being the doormat for the others as an apprentice - he wanted it the hard way - he'll get it!!!)

What are his target grades? Not his predicted ones.

the target grades are virtually the same - only math is one higher and biology is 2 higher.

I am worried that these predictions and targets are set in stone as the teacher said. Did any of you find them changing much?

I'm currently applying for Mechanical engineering at university so I kinda have a view point on this.

For engineering you need physics and maths A levels, that is really the only way that universities look at it now, very very few will allow you on to their course if you cannot prove mathematical and physics skill.

The lowest entry requirements for universities that are worth going to (The course should be certified by the ImechE), are roughly BBC (Portsmouth) including maths and physics.

To get into A-levels you commonly need a B in the subject at Gcse, however from my opinion and experience if you cannot get an A at GCSE then you will not get a B at A-level, it is possible to get the better grades from lower GCSE however it would be difficult. A-level is a whole new world to GCSE.

The most important thing for your son would be motivation, it seems to be what he is lacking. What gave me motivation was work experience in engineering, possibly try and get your son to organise some, hopefully that make give him the motivation to work to his potential.

I also agree with the others over the whole fear of failure thing. Whilst I hold an offer for portsmouth I really want to go to Warwick. I should get the grades, however the fear of failure is something that really does effect those who arn't sure of their abilities. Your view of telling your son about how bad a job as a car mechanic is will do nothing good at all. If your son is unable to get into university to do engineering after trying his hardest you need to make sure he doesn't feel like he has failed, you need to support him. There are many other mechanical related jobs that arn't bum jobs, for example you can be a british airways engineer who work on the aircraft without a degree, very far from a typical car mechanic, well paid and a very complex and responsible job.

If he feels that he has a backup option then he may perform better then if you are telling him that and engineering degree is the only option he has.

lukebs
thanks for advice - that is very useful. you are probably right in saying I shouldn't rubbish a lower level career - alas - I am not a saint and I am still fuming with smoke coming out of my ears.

Never in a million years would I have thought that he would not be able to get into six form. He had a level 6 A in science in year eight and a level 7 in math in years 9 - both achievements that a way above the average. I just don't get it why he has suddenly these low grades.

I'm surprised the target grades aren't higher, as they should be set on previous grades and even ks2 levels.

He shouldn't have to leave education altogether if he doesn't get B's: I am sure he could find some Sixth College that will take him with lower grades. Dd was ill for the best part of secondary and ended up with only 6 A-C grades, but still got into one of the best local Sixth Form colleges and I am sure there are some that would have taken her with lower grades too.

But of course you are right about worrying about his attitude; that is more important than whether he squeezes into Sixth Form or not. Is there a chance he might change when he sees the others buckling down to it?

My ds is a little younger than yours, but he has gone up massively in the last few months. A big part of that, I think, is to do with the fact that his mates are no longer willing to sit around being amused by the class clown. Also the fact that once he did start to do some work he was pleasantly surprised to find he could do it. At the latest parents evening his maths teacher described his earlier persona as the greatest idiot in the class, but agreed that there had been a real change and that he now is in with a chance of decent grades.

Pal, those predicted grades mean nothing except that he isn't currently working hard enough to do well in his GCSEs. It's a very common year 10 problem, particularly among boys it seems.

If he's getting Cs and Ds without doing any work, he could get As and Bs if he does some. Maybe this report will be a wake-up call for him.

On the other hand, maybe it won't. Maybe he is not interested, or maybe he isn't ready to knuckle down... Or maybe he's one of many young people who learn through doing rather than sitting still and listening, who aren't very well served by our secondary school system. Lots and lots of kids like this underachieve at GCSE level, but then find motivation and pleasure in learning again at a Further Ed (FE) college.

Nothing at all is determined by his GCSE results, except his confidence. And perhaps admission to a handful of top-rate universities - but not necessarily even that. If he wants to go to university, it's his level 3 qualifications that count - i.e. A levels, BTEC higher diploma or Access to HE course.

If by any chance he does very badly in the 'real' GCSEs - fewer than 5 grade Cs - this will slow down his progress to HE (if he still wants to go). He will certainly get a place at an FE college, but not necessarily on the course he wants, and he will need to prove himself. If he doesn't get English and maths GCSEs at grade C or above, but wants to progress, he will need to retake them.

If he's still not ready for study, the door still isn't shut. It is never shut, since he can apply to university as a mature student at any age, if he wants to.

It is the wanting that is key. He won't do well unless and until he decides he wants to work hard.

As for your survival, well it comes down to detachment again! Hold on to the thought that he's not ready now, but there is still time before GCSEs, and that even if he's still not ready by next summer, there will still be lots of options when he is. You can support him by not panicking - which will add to his panic - and by helping him believe in himself. Say things like "Well, just think what you could achieve if you put your mind to it!"

You already know some of my experiences with my own DS. He underachieved badly in his GCSEs (4 grade Cs and a B) messed about for a year, and then found a course he wanted to do, and is now doing very well and is likely to go to uni. He just needed to decide that he wanted to study.

As well as my personal experience, I have taught for 4 years in an FE college and 4 in a university. I have seen countless students who did badly at school go on to do well. Don't despair! :)