How to get a 12 yr old boy to leave his computer and do something else!

[BlogOnTheTyne]

I've got two 12 yr old twin boys. At the w/e, after finishing homework, they spend the rest of the entire time glued to their PCs, and every evening after HW also. They refuse to go out at all with me - won't come to the supermarket or for a country walk and say they'll just refuse to get in the car if I insist.

They refuse to get off their chairs for literally hours on end, even eating meals in front of screens, although they will moodily drag themselves to the table to eat some foods but HAVE to watch something whilst eating. One of them will even go the whole day without going to the loo!

The best that they'll do is come and play on the Wii in a different room for about 15 mins but it ALWAYS ends up with a fight, even if I join them and deliberatey lose.

I work (all week, all evenings and Saturday mornings too) and then spend the rest of the w/e cleaning, cooking, doing laundry, tidying up. On the few occasions that I can summon up enough energy to have a major confrontation, I have to lose my temper completely before they'll do anything to help - which is only on the level of carry one bag of supermarket shopping (that I've gone out to buy) from the hall to the kitchen. But that has to be on a day when i feel really, really strong in myself.

There's no other adult here to back me up and they often gang up against me or it turns into one of them playing the good twin and the other the bad twin. Rarely do we ever now get on happily altogether.

I've been worried for ages about the amount of time they spend on screens, yet I've also had to rely on screens to keep them settled and less likely to fight and argue, when I'm working (I work from home).

However, I feel increasingly resentful that I'm rushing around all w/e doing very boring domestic tasks and they're just sitting still - 'screening'. I also seem to find it a lot harder to focus on a task when they're around as I still 'listen out' to them in case a major fight erupts or they call for me for food/drink/settle an argument, which is very often. Most of all, I find it hard to get on with useful tasks, knowing that they're doing nothing very useful at all and are sedentary for hours at a time.

If I suggest we go out together - although I absolutely don't really have time - they now refuse and don't want to go anywhere and are fully able to sustain a massive argument about me taking them out, for the entire 3 to 5 hrs we may be somewhere.

So now it's winter and darker and they want to go out even less and they spend maybe 14 hrs a day more or less glued to screens at the w/e. This is utterly and entirely different from my own childhood. I could always find something useful and creative to do from drawing, reading, playing piano, writing, going to town or the library, still playing imaginary games in my head, at that age. If I ask them what they might do other than screens, they hit a blank. They genuinely have no idea what else to do or if I suggest anything, refuse heatedly.

I'm too exhausted to cope with so many fights and have somewhat, shamefully, given in. Should I just accept that they're in the throes of puberty (definitely got all the signs - spots, BO, muscles, growth spurts, hair everwhere, foul moods mixed with sweetness and light) and need their 'down time' after a v busy week at school with loads of homework?

Should I persist in forcing them to get off their seats and do something - anything - other than screens, although i can't literally force them to do anything anymore? If I even try disconnecting one of their PCs - which I've done when one of them has been utterly foul to me - they just go and turn on the TV, find the iPod or - take to bed!

The ensuing row just isn't worth it. So how do I change their screen addiction/habit at this stage, without another adult here to back me up or entertain them?

For now, I wouldn't be getting them to look at what needs doing, I would be making a list and showing them.

It sounds silly, but set them up to do well. Make the list 3-4 items each, make it manageable and once its done, they can go back on their screens (and if no screens, what about fantasy books, model aeroplanes, my brother when he was evicted from his xbox was into taking apart and putting together all sorts of machinery)

Once you are getting them to do their 3-4 tasks, then add another one every few weeks. Is pocket money an option?

And with a cleaner, I honestly think its worth reinstating once you have the boys doing soem stuff

Change the wifi password each day. Give each dc a list of what tasks you expect to be done and the reward will be the password.

Have been thinking about your initial post for a day or so. You have got into a situation which does not sound ideal although it is totally understandable. Having 2 kids that fight is exhausting and the screens allow you some much needed peace. However growing boys should not be living the sedentary lifestyle you portray. Are they healthy and fit ?

My son spent more time on Xbox than I liked at this age as 12 was too young for him to go out on his own, but too old to want to be out with mum, but it ceased to be an issue gradually as he got older and developed a social life outside the home - football in the park with mates, skateboarding, even hanging round mates houses playing xbox but at least that is more social and he had to walk there. I am not sure this will happen in your case though? Do you live somewhere quite remote ?

Most kids this age would have some interests / clubs/sports teams etc . For this generation I think it is quite common for the DEFAULT activity to be screen time - punctuated by Hw/ sporting commitments or other hobbies. It would be impossible really for you to say no screens suddenly without an attractive alternative activity. Kids are not able to think of other things to do - this is quite normal, your twins are not unusual in that respect.

Would getting a dog be a possibility - they would have an reason to get out and walk / play then? You said one twin was cycling so maybe you are fortunate to live somewhere where this is safe - can this be encouraged?

My eldest 2 are very close in age and it is also impossible to spend time with both simultaneously as they used to fight as well as having no common interests. A solution is to engage them in separate activities often outside the home - this will involve your time ferrying but that is what life is like for a lot of parents. The journey time can be useful time spent with kids too. For me supporting my kids extra curricular activities gives me valuable 1-1 time , whether it's a concert / tennis match etc etc.

The chores issue is tricky - my kids do very little although as they are growing up ( 15 ish ) it is slightly easier as they are just naturally more competent. Getting them to help more is a battle I have personally chosen not to wage at the moment anyway. I pay someone to do 3 hours cleaning each week and that helps keep my resentment at bay !

It also sounds like you feel domestically out of control ( sorry if I'm wrong!) - could you have a day off work and have a massive spring clean and blitz the house one day ( not with the twins help - that would be too stressful!) - can be quite cathartic !! If your environment looked different afterwards you could have a plan with the boys to keep it the 'new way' ? With each having a small and easy list of tasks ?

12 is still quite young, I would try to make some small changes before they get into real teenage years.

Good luck !

Thanks for the feedback Claybury. Part of the problem is that they are totally exhausted after a week at school - often not getting home till 5.30pm and then spending 1 to 2 hrs on HW. They do a joint after school club - but that's currently on hold this season (canoeing) that they recently started and one of them also has a music ensemble till late after school.

They used to do loads more clubs after school and really coulnd't keep it all up.

The last thing they want at the w/e is something else organised and structured. All they really want to do is veg. in front of PCs.

They don't live in walking distance to their friends - in fact Asps new friend lives almost 2 hrs drive away and comes to school by train. It's also been v difficult to arrange get-togethers with friends for them anymore as they're too old for parents to instigate this but too young to take the train or a bus alone to a friend.

Also NT DT has far far more friends than his brother and has inadvertently 'taken' some of Asps DT's friends away from him. So the whole socialising thing is fraught with problems like - if i enable NT DT to see a friend or have one round, that then leaves Asps DT feeling v excluded.

They're NOT v fit at all! NT DT is extremely slim but currently recovering from an operation so currently off all Games and PE etc. He used to be the sporty fit one but is now totally into computer generated imagery and programming etc. Getting him to cycle in the summer - which he used to love - was a major major battle!

Asps DT is muscular to overweight and plays rugby with a school team sometimes after school as well as doing 4 hrs of rugby and one lesson of PE at school each week - as does NT DT when he's not off Games. Asps DT sometimes does badminton or - in season, tennis - at lunch breaks and he's the one who obsessively cycled each day during the summer - the same and only 'safe-ish' route locally to us.

However, he's very dyspraxic and also fairly unfit and used to be the most sedentary one of the two. He worries about his weight and fitness and is the one of them who does try sometimes to moderate his screen time and deliberately take a break - but then finds nothing else as interesting to do.

SO I do worry about their lack of cardiovascular fitness. Both hate football. NT DT tried skateboarding and rollerblading when he was much younger but could never really do it and there was nowhere to practice and he felt foolish to practice anyway in public as he wasn't any good.

Don't get me started on the dog thing! We once had one - that neither of them wanted but I did - at first. The worst ever family rows we ever had were when I forced them out on dog walks in all weathers, as they were too young to be left at home. Dog was chronically sick and ill (genetic issues) and...long story...but ended up living with a lovely lovely family who had all the time in the world for him. DTs look back in horror at that time in their lives and never want another one. It was virtually impossible also for me to fit in the dog's needs into an already over full life.

Yes, I often feel out of control with domestic tasks. About twice a year, I try to declutter and clean properly but within days it's back to where it was. A day off work for me means a day without income. So I can rarely allow a day without DTs or working and only get Sundays off completely from work in any case. This leaves little time or energy for domestic stuff - hence wishing the DCs would help out more.

My daily routine is up at 6am, get everyone ready, do school run and drop off at 7.30am, back home - from where I work - to do admin and tel. calls till around 8.45am - work/earn money - till 3pm, do school run or maybe supermarket shop first and pick up DCs. Either back around 4.45pm or if there's a school club, 5.45pm, make supper for DTs, ensure they've started HW, back to work till around 7.45pm - do basic domestic stuff and run a bath for DTs, help with unfinished HWs if necessary.

Do a bit more work admin and then spend around 45 mins so called quality time with DTs till they go to bed around 9pm - when I also crash into bed too. (Asps DT always wakes at 4.45am and although he does now stay in his room, I always wake when he does as his room is next to mine. So I need to get to sleep early to get enough!)

Sometimes I actually long for a run of a few days to get to grips with the housework or do a necessary DIY task - eg only just fit a new toilet seat this w/e after the other broke well over a yr ago - without the DCs here or any work but if i do ever get a short break, it's filled with the more urgent daily tasks like laundry, dishwasher, food shopping, cooking.

It would in any case take far far longer than a day to blitz the entire house. There are boxes and carrier bags filled with backlogs of less than v urgent paperwork to file and sort and mounds and mounds of clean laundry overspilling about 6 laundry baskets across my bedroom floor. Never get time to out it all away before the next lot needs washing and ending up in another laundry basket.

DTs have been away (on a school trip) for 2 consecutive nights and only once in the last few years. I used my three days to clear and clean and got as far as clearing a main room and my bedroom....but within weeks, it all mounted up again as there just is never regular time in my day or week to keep on top of it all.

Got to go and do domestic tasks now, actually. DTs have been v good the rest of today, although I've lapsed into doing it all for them, as they day's worn on because it's so much quicker, my only day 'off' is almost over and DTs have a full week of school to do from tomorrow.

Your DT's are going to bed at 9pm - that's really good; good that they are getting enough sleep and not staying up burning the midnight oil and staying on screens until the early hours.

why cant you change the password on the modem and password every available electronic item?

At the end of the day, they are twelve. Refusing to do something they asre told to do is NOT acceptable. It is NOT an option. lock non-passworded items in a suitcase and wear the key around your neck. they earn the right to have them back by adhereing to rules and completing their chores and tasks on time, with no backchat and to an acceptable standard.

This "Honestly rules and limits and shouting will just cause resentment. " is just wrong. rules and limits are a part of everyday life. If they can't keep to simple rules aged 12 they aren't going to be able to function in society with the complex rules as they age.

www.nicas.co.uk

Find your local indoor climbing centre, sign him up to Nicas, they get good quickly, it trains the brain as well as getting them really fit, very addictive and they would much rather be on the wall than on a computer.

I'd cut the plugs off / remove sim cards from phones etc and endure them going cold turkey for their ultimate benefit, but you will have to find them other hobbies so it won't be easy, but will be worth it (8 year old twins here, v limited screen time and trying to keep it that way). Good luck

The title of your thread - then your response above ' all the really want to do is veg in front of PC's' puzzles me. Most 12 year old boys would have plenty of energy for sport at the weekend - exercise energises you after all.
My teenagers do not get enough exercise - I have enrolled my youngest DC in several sporting activities in the hope he will continue at least one into his teens as persuading teenagers to take up something new is pretty impossible!

Take control back Mum .... Yes, it'l be melt-down city when you do it but stick with it, you are the boss here, not them.

DONT feed them when they at a screen. Give them 10 & 5 min warnings of food being ready. 'Teas Up' - if they dont come to the table they dont get fed. If they take the plate to the screen anyway, take away their phone. Not putting credit on their phone is a another good 'compliance' tactic.

Find some way of turning the Net off at specific times. Limit the number of PCs/laptops in the house to an absolute minimum and dont allow laptops etc in bedrooms (they clearly can't be trusted so take them away).

Do not let them run this one. If they cant behave - remove access.

I am amazed that there are parents in thrall to their children in this way... Having said that it looks as though you also rely heavily on the computer - constantly checking work emails etc

You need to come to an agreement with them if they do x and y then they can use pc. Do they do ANY sport? Swimming? Footie?

Sorry have now read your post re sport. If my child spoke to me the way your DT did I would get rid of the pc. No joke.

What about swimming? Just sign them up, grit your teeth and get on with it. You can't let them dictate to you like this.

You also need to get the house sorted. If your house is tidy they can get themselves some food instead of relying on you.
On Sat mornings, insist on 'chores', ALL of you meed to do some and then afternoons can be screen time.

You ALLOW then their meals in front of the PC ???

LOL - this is where your problems start and end.

Get a grip...

I think distraction is way better than screen rules.
Tell them they are going shopping, family outing, swimming out in the garden. No ifs or buts they are doing it. They are 12. Staying at home on your own is a treat not a right.

Chores, I've never had much luck with this as I'm a SAHM and DH can be arsed to shout at the DDs and helps me instead.

DD1(15) is way better than DD2(12), but this is because she likes cooking more than anything.

As for eatting in front of screens, I don't mind at all, if they do, I can

In any case DD2 has always eaten better watching TV. She thinks food is boring, she eats painfully slowly and any adult forced to watch her gets cross. She digs her heels in and, after two hours the food goes in the bin or parent.

As she approaches her teen years I'd much rather she ate without getting bored than turning her small child's stubbornness into a eating disorder.

The less DD2 thinks about food the better. As long as she c

Blog - if you haven't read it before, can I recommend to you Ross Greene's "The explosive Child"?

Well worth reading on behalf of your boy with AS, but it's an approach you can use to keep the NT twin on board, too, since I can't imagine either boy getting intrinsically easier to work with, in the next few years.

Delete unfinished sentence.

BlogontheTyne, you & your DTs have got into some bad habits - that is not blaming you, just an observation. No one likes change but it really sounds like you are going to have to grab this issue & make it change.

I'm big into consequences. I'm on my own and one of my DCs is autistic spectrum and the only way I can keep a hold on everything is by being as consistent as possible and rigorous about consequences. Sometimes you can talk until you are breathless, but it is actually your actions that will count in the end.

First of all, have a very clear picture of what you want to happen & how you would like life in your household to run. Be precise in your own mind about this. It is impossible to give clear instructions to anyone else about how you want things, unless you are crystal clear yourself. Create a chart of how your ideal day will look for you & the DTs. What jobs could they reasonably do that would be good for them to have responsibility for & of help to you. Think about the weekends, what activities could you do together that they might enjoy, what help could they give you etc. Make a very clear plan.

Then explain to them what the plan is. Don't ask them, don't get their input - just tell them. Be clear that you are worn out & that they are spending more time than any person should in front of the computer. Don't be whiny, don't make excuses - speak with all the authority you can muster.

Explain that the plan going forward will be as follows - if necessary do some kind of phasing, if you think that will help.

Tell them that any kind of non-compliance or unhelpful behaviour will result in reduced computer time & FGS find a way of preventing them from having access to the computer.

Then follow through. If they kick off, don't engage in any kind of argument, you don't have to justify yourself. Go & lock yourself in the bathroom, put the ear plugs in & take a glass of wine with you!

Remember, you are the boss. You are paying the bills, you are the driver, the food provider, the cook, the wiper of fevered brows etc etc. You have more power than you think you do!!!!!!

Good luck.

They get home from school at 5.30pm and then do 1-2 hours of homework (seems an awful lot of homework for a 12 year old - mine certainly doesn't get this much!!). So that takes you up to 7.30pm sometimes. Then they go to bed at 9pm. So they aren't really on the screen that long in the weekdays are they? Or am I misunderstanding something?

One of them does music til late after school.

They both play rugby with the school team (altho I understand one is off games for the moment).

And one sometimes does badminton or tennis.

I don't think the weekdays are that bad really.

Weekends are probably a different kettle of fish, but even if one of those days is spent mostly on screens, that's not too bad is it? Especially if they are doing creative stuff like 'computer generated imagery' and 'programming' - fantastic!!

I would not, however, tolerate the rudeness or the laziness about getting their own food etc. They have to learn consequences to their actions.

As a side note, I would love to come to your house and give it a good once over - de-cluttering is FAB

Just logged on again and seen more posts. Many thanks. Claybury, they're exhausted at the w/es and in the evenings because they do much at school and have v long school days and the last thing they want is to do yet more sport (neither has ever really been a 'sporty' boy) or go out for a country walk.

They do one period of PE a week at school and two double/triple sessions of Games (Rugby this term, hockey next and tennis in the summer). One plays badminton some lunchtimes or they go to shooting club. One used to do climbing wall club. Both have recently started canoe/kayaking club that goes on till 7pm after school - and I drop them at school every morning for 7.30am - so it can be a v long day.

Pasanda, your post made me feel less guilty. They do have a busy week - although I do too - and even on Saturday mornings, we're all working too - me in my business from home and them doing homework. So no time for chores then and I usually do the supermarket shop on Sat afternoon or Sun morning - so also little time for chores.

They go to a school where they've always had loads of HW and so it sometimes even spills into Sunday too. DT1 (NT) says he dreads Sundays as this is the only day off - yet also the day before it all starts again for the working week.

So this is the background context that I suppose has made me too lenient about screen time. As I said above, it's also been the one thing to keep them quiet whilst I'm working.

I've reverted to doing everything again this week but have told them that I'll expect more help at the w/es. I just don't have time in the week for the battles forcing them to do more, to be honest.

Queenbee, Asps DT is better than his NT brother at remembering and sticking to rules and expected behaviours because he's v much a creature of habit. However, he can totally lose it if interrupted in mid screen, if I need him to do something.

Starballbunny, NT DT has had a lifelong predisposition to vomiting at anything or anytime - not medical explanation, despite investigations - and he's growing out of it now. But this has ben another reason why I've let them watch screens and eat as he takes absolutely ages to eat a mouthful, finds certain textures difficult to swallow and being distracted whilst eating has helped him to eat more and not gag.

I sometimes do lock myself away if they get too much but they won't leave me alone and mercilessly bang on my bedroom door, calling for me and even kick the door or slam against it. So it doesn't really work.

I've tried simply telling them we're all going out for a lovely country walk and just going. Recent excursions have been total and utter Hell! One of them will spend the entire time out - up to 5 hrs even - going on and on and on at me, provoking me, being rude and if I lose my temper and tell him off in public - which I have been known to do - he'll then speak even louder, saying horrible or untrue things about me. I've had times when I've had to decide whether just to go home (which I might not personally want to do) or carry on but hear the relentless nastiness from one of them. One may then side with me or with his twin.

So in the last year, I've given up taking them out at all but also feel I can't go alone, partly because again it feels wrong that I'm getting exercise and they're not and partly because if I leave them for any length of time (on screen in any case), they'll fight each other and I'm not there to supervise.

Sorry, this is all sounding terrible. Between times, they can be fantastic and loving and kind. It's just that I've never had consistent time or energy to instigate changes and in fact have let things drift, in recent years, as I've worked longer hours and they're so happy (to a point) on screens. They only have a desktop each - right beside the kitchen - no laptops or other gadgets and only PAYG basic mobiles that only make calls.

Op I think the root of your problem is that you have too much to do and therefore not enough time to spend either with them or thinking about what they are doing while you lightly supervise. Can you reduce your working hours even a little, shop online? Pay for a cleaner?

Just coming back on to say that this morning DTs spontaneously emptied the dishwasher, without me even having to ask and before they even began their HW!

I made sure they got loads of positive feedback and told them how helpful this was and what a difference this makes.

Could this be the start of better things to come?

Let's hope so, OP! Occasionally, just occasionally, they can surprise us!

You sound completely overwhelmed-and no wonder!
I often feel that way when there is a lot to be done then I spend forever faffing and doing a little of one thing before I jump to do a little of another, with the result that I achieve nothing at all, then I feel more overwhelmed and I do a little of one thing....repeat ad infinitum!
Is there a chance that you might be a bit the same way? What kind of work is it you do? Do you have to work set hours or is this a self imposed timetable? I'm asking because if you had some flexibility, you might get somewhere if you could do some stuff in the house once the boys are at school, before you do any work?