13 year old son stealing mum's bank cards for gaming... punishments??

[notacloudinthesky]

I have just discovered by checking my bank/savings account that my 13 year old DS has spent £300 in the last 10 days by opening an Apple account and Itunes account and a new email account in his name and added my debit card for the sole intention of purchasing games for his ipad etc.
He has admitted it and in true teen style his answer to "why?" is "I dunno..".
Sadly this is not the first time and he was punished last time, had his electronics removed and ordered to pay off the debt by handing over birthday and Xmas money etc. Currently he doesn't get pocket money. Electronics were handed back when we thought he had learned his lesson...
I'm sure there are "legitimate" reasons in his head why he has done this.... I'm divorced/new partner/new baby etc and so has his father, but we love the children very much and they are well cared for etc with good schools, home and holidays etc etc.... He has always needed a lot of attention but he has other siblings and he's not a baby anymore. This is serious.
DS is an A team rugby player but I have noticed in the last year or so that his enthusiasm has dropped off (perhaps not that unusual) and his grades at school have slipped badly - his end of term exams truly awful.
New partner is fed up with DS not listening to instructions at home, his often slovenly approach and it's causing huge problems.....
Apart from the obvious paying back by chores (he has to unload the dishwashers everyday.... we are a big family) and keep his room tidy which is a joke.... change his bed and pop to the shops for provisions etc and having his electronics removed, I'm after some constructive ideas to get through to him that this is serious. It breaks my heart to do it, but I would take him to the police this time and let them make him see this is a criminal offence.......
I would welcome any constructive help. I'm feeling rather low.
Fed up of being called a chocolate fireguard - need some help to instil relevant discipline please.

Have you tried asking your DS what he thinks you should do? teenagers/chidlren are often surprisingly punitive with their replies, but they can have some good ideas (caveat - it doesn't always work)

I have. He hasn't got much to say for himself at the moment. He is away on holiday with his father until the weekend so communication is limited.

Pay the money back obviously- if he's no money I'd be selling the electronic items to cover it. Then I would go with much more limited electronics time as a start if he had money as an actual consequence.

I think you also need to find a way to hide your purse/bank card.

i know it may sound stupid, but if you call the local police station (not 999 obvs!) you may be able to speak to an officer and make an appt for them to meet with your son and explain how very serious it is
they are cracking down at the moment on things like this because of the percentage that will go on to commit bigger / worse crimes in the future (so you wont be laughed at!)- may scare the shit out of your son enough for him to realise the implications?

Also, is he bored? Or thinks he's bored? I'm struggling to see how anyone could spend that much on computer games when the free ones are so good - it suggests he hasn't enough to do - any chance gaming has 'become' his life rather than just part of it?

How about a computer course next holidays - where they learn to code etc?

He needs to pay it back. Either by doing £300 worth of jobs or by you selling £300 worth of his stuff.

And you need to make sure that he never gets his hands on your cards again.

He has to feel the pinch for what he's done.

I agree that asking the police to describe to him what could happen if he stole a card and used it and the person pressed charges.

Yes, thank you, you are right. Sadly I think the local police would be a good idea, I want him to be scared this time. It's scary to think it could be a slippery slope and that's the last thing I want for him.

Sell the electronics and get the Apple account cancelled. Get your son away from the house so you can talk to him without interruption. Explain that setting up an account with someone else's card details is fraud and that he can get a criminal record for this if you chose to report it to the Police.

Maybe phone 101 and ask if someone from your local community policing team can come round for a word with your son?

Also, how good are relations with your ex? With something this serious, you need him to be on side with whatever sanction you agree, not least in case he tries it again with his dad's card.

I'd be speaking to the local police station and arrange for them to take him away, put him in a cell and interview him about the matter. That should scare the shit out of him. If you can arrange it, do it. He has to learn that actions have consequences.

New partner is fed up with DS not listening to instructions at home, his often slovenly approach and it's causing huge problems.

Possibly why ds wants to escape into a gaming world?

If your new partner doesn't have teenagers, your son may be a bit of a shock to him. Is he expecting too much? Is new partner any good at listening to instructions, aka other people's rules? Are you?

So what if ds doesn't like rugger any more.
Re the grades, explain to ds that his grades will impact on his life, not yours. If he doesn't get his finger out, it's he who will be working in a minimum wage job etc. Hide your worry.

And (finally), does he get enough pocket money, down time etc?

I would contact his dad and get him to check his own accounts if DS has access to the same sites etc at his fathers.

Stupidly I hadn't thought about him selling his equipment but i think it's a really good idea.
We phoned 101 yesterday and yes they can organise that.
Relations are good with ex although he can be fairly......dismissive rather than constructive but we have talked and he's as disappointed as me.

I would laugh at the low sophistication of his crime.
He must pay back. Flogging his stuff if necessary. I tend to think that the pain of having to pay you back would be enough to put most kids off.

I am not sure why he gets no pocket money? Is that state of affairs making it harder for him to resist temptations?

What is his self-esteem like, otherwise? The failing interest in sport & studies are bad signs. Kids who feel good about themselves find it easier to resist greedy impulses & to respect other people.

I guess calling police depends what he's done before, and who was harmed by it. I would think of it as a fairly extreme response. Outrageous behaviour, but so ineptly perpetuated, and (for me) it's different from a situation where he tried to steal from someone besides his own parents.

HeathRobinson, you may have a point and a teenage son is new to him, yes. However, stealing is not the way forward. It doesn't matter if he doen't like rugby any more, but that's missing the point.... he does. It's his general approach to all things at the moment.
Re grades, it worries me and he knows he has to pull his finger out this year.. he's not stupid and it's sad and frustrating to see.

I agree I need to look at the whole pocket money thing...... it perhaps would resist temptation. I don't want that to be the answer for his "crimes" though..
His self esteem is not great at the moment and as a family I need to help him with that..... he has always needed a lot of attention and is often quite revolting to his sister.

Agree with everything everyone has said, also wondering ehat's going on with the low self esteem? Is he being bullied and passing it on to his sisters? Finding it hard to make friends?

I don't believe that he's being bullied... although I have considered it. He seems well liked at school and at sport etc but doesn't have mates that he sees out of school apart from training etc.
He's always appeared self conscious but it comes across more rude now than anything...
I have wondered if he has mild aspergers but that's another thing altogether.
I have lots to think about here and am grateful for everyones comments.

I think in your position I would try to get as much as the money as I could back from him. Sell his IPAD sort of thing. Really hit him hard.

Then say if the other things - homework, chores attitude, etc - improve say you will consider pocket money in the new year.

I was reading something in the Times recently which recommended that pocket money for teens should be generous but that they should have to buy stuff for themselves. eg rather than giving them £5 a week and buying them designer clothes all the time, give them £15 or £20 (yikes!) but they have to buy their own clothes and save up for them.

(This might not work as well for you if your DS is likely to spend it all on gaming.)

I do sympathise. My DS did something like this and I was gutted. I never would have thought it of him. It was a much smaller amount so I got it back by taking it out of his pocket money. But if it was a larger amount - every game and his DS would be straight to CEX etc etc.

I would:

• sell off his electricals to cover the bill his iPad should cover it
• close down the apple account
• contact apple and explain the situation, some parents have had success in this way at getting some of the bill cut (if you do get any of it cut don't tell DS as it will minimise it)
• get local PCSO round for a stern word
• make some time that is just for you and him (even once a week) to talk, even if you have to got out for a drive to do it!

In a couple of months maybe set up some pocket money but not yet and don't mention it's in the pipeline.

Yes, I agree with it all, thank you. Pocket money next year perhaps.... Balloon Slayer - was your son apologetic?

As an aside, the I have changed the Apple account into my email and password and taken control - he has no further access to it. I've kept it for reference as it lists all the transactions. Apple itself were as helpful as they could be (a particular customer service manager personally helped me but his hands were tied).
Itunes were USELESS. To start with you can't call them as it's all email based communication. Even Apple had trouble getting through to them. And, even though it was MY bank account that was used, because the account and email wasn't in my name they wouldn't release any information to me AT ALL. The nice man at Apple was very sympathetic and managed to get a tiny bit of info which led to me guessing DS but it seems data protection protects the perpetrator.........
It's too easy for kids to set up email accounts and accounts such as Apple accounts etc...... Not that I'm blaming them, I'm most definitely not, but I'm shocked by the ease of it all. My bank wouldn't release any info either - I think they should have been able to tell m the email address associated with the transactions, but they couldn't/wouldn't.

It sounds like an attention issue to me. You have a baby which will be taking up a lot of time, your new partner is bossing him about (looking at this from a Kevin point of view) and the only time he gets attention is if he does something.

How did he get hold of your cards? What security do you have on your bank account? With mine I have to enter the number and code from the back and then enter a password, it might be worth checking with your bank to do this.

One other thiing you can do is order a new bank card, as soon as it arrives make a mental note of the 3 digit code on the back and then remove the sticker from the back so if he gets hold of it again he cannot spend anything.

Write to apple and itunes. Tell them you are making an appliction under the data protection act and you want all data relatiing to you. Tell them that as they have your bank details they are holding information on you illegally and you want it destroyed.

Well I suppose he was notacloud, but but but but BUT he would NOT admit it was him when I first accused him. I knew it was, but he denied denied, burst into tears lamenting at how I was accusing him of something he hadn't done, how could I think he could do such a terrible thing . . . ? I felt like an absolute piece of shit, even though I knew it was him. Eventually I was able to prove it, and yes he was sorry but not bloody sorry enough IMO. The way he had tried to make me feel bad for accusing him made it a hundred times worse for me.

He lost pocket money for a while before it was paid up and was grounded for a bit. As the time went on he got arsey about it, "It's not fair!" sort of thing and that made me angry again because I think if someone is sorry then they accept their punishment, they don't go bellyaching about it. TBH I think he was only sorry he got caught. It shocked me as he is a very kind, considerate and honest person and TBH the last person you'd think would do anything like that.

I feel very ashamed about it but a few people have quietly admitted that their DCs have done similar. And I did at the same age, although it was the odd 50p out of my Mum's purse for sweets. But I stopped because I suddenly developed a conscience . . . DS stopped because he was bloody well caught.

sell the computers/phones etc.

Thats fraud, as an adult he would face prison for that

Interesting that you mention Asbergers. What made you think of that? It crossed my mind when i read your first post on this thread. His lack of understanding of the seriousness of what he did.