DS17 is sneaking people into my house when I've said no, and it's freaking me out

[flow4]

Sorry. Long one. I think I'm offloading as well as asking for opinions.

A bit of background (for those of you who don't already know)... About 6 weeks ago, I had a nightmare weekend: I was burgled by someone who had a key for my house - so almost certainly one of my son's 'friends'; then my own son was arrested because the police suspected him; then, tho he hadn't, it turned out that he was at a party held by his 'best mate' (19) and attended by many local lads, plus - incredibly shockingly - two men who had allegedly just stabbed a couple of people, killed one of them, gone home to get changed, and headed off to the party. :( :(

I put a ban on my son bringing anyone at all into my house for a week or two. I then relaxed that ban to "no-one comes in when I'm not at home and around to supervise". My logic was/is that (a) my son has a lousy taste in friends, (b) until I know who did burgle me, I can't be sure who didn't, and (c) DS2 and I need to be and feel safe in our own home.

But my son does not respect my feelings or take them seriously at all. He has totally different values and measures of risk/danger/acceptable behaviour. He thinks I'm making 'a fuss'. Since then, he has broken the ban several times. He has let his friends in when I have been at work. He snuck 4-5 lads in when I was asleep and they took drugs in my kitchen. Last night, he snuck his 'best mate' in after I had gone to bed, and when I discovered him and chucked him out, my son kicked off, screamed and swore at me, and left with his mate to go and find somewhere else to sleep.

His take on it was that his mate had no-where else to stay, he stands by his mates and supports them, he didn't ask because he knew I'd say 'no', and there was no way he was going to let him 'go out on the streets' on his own. My take on it is that I do not trust the guy - there's something about him that makes me uncomfortable; he has never had a conversation with me or made any effort to be pleasant; people who have 'nowhere to stay' have burnt bridges and are not good news; every time my son has anything to do with him there's trouble; and anyone who is happy to try to sneak into a house past a sleeping mum is untrustworthy.

I am now close to panic because I can't work out what to do... My problem is that if I ask myself "What do you want in this situation?", everything I can think of is impossible or worse than the current situation... I have been here before and I know I am going round in circles... :(

My first choice would be for my 'nice' son to come back and replace this selfish f*cker who has taken his place during the last couple of years :( I know that isn't going to happen, of course.

My second choice would be for him to get an entirely different set of friends - nice ones who are at college or in work, and who don't have criminal records. But of course I can't chose his friends for him, and he's not going to make any new friends while he's not doing anything.

My third choice would be for a relative to offer to have him live with them. We haven't got any who would/could. And his useless f*cker father is on the other side of the world.

My fourth choice would be for DS1 to leave home happily and go and live somewhere far away doing something constructive that will help him grow up, and come home to visit from time to time when we both want to see each other. That isn't going to happen either: he doesn't want to go anywhere, he isn't mature enough, he's a bit of a lazy sod, and he's too young for any organised schemes (like VSO).

My fifth choice option would be to throw him out. But that will bring him into more contact with the people and things I don't want in my life, or his. I fear for his safety and wellbeing.

My sixth option is to have him living at home but not to allow anyone else in at all ever (or at least not until he makes some new nice friends ). But that needs his co-operation, and I haven't got it :(

My seventh option is to have him living at home and allow friends in when I am at home and awake... But we've tried that, and the trust is already broken. And again it requires cooperation from him that isn't there.

I can't work out any option that would actually work :(

So (and if you've read this far, thanks) I have some specific questions for people. Any answers/thoughts welcome...

1. Am I being unreasonable to be now wanting a total ban on having any of his friends in my house?

2. I hate that my son has friends I do not like or trust. I know that's quite a common parent perspective, but how do other people deal with it? Do you let people you don't like and trust into your house?

3. Given that I can't actually enforce a ban on my son's friends with my son living at home, do I just (a) give in and let them hang out at my house; or (b) accept it's impossible for my son to live at home any more, and throw him out, despite inevitable bad consequences for him? :(

4. I wonder whether a compromise would work - i.e. allow the 'best mate' in, even though I don't like or trust him - on the understanding that no-one else is allowed in ever - and taking the gamble that this will make it more likely DS will stick to the agreement. My trust in DS is so damaged I would expect this agreement to be broken too... But is it worth a try?

Or can anyone else think of something that would work?

I am really struggling with this. Any help/advice will be much appreciated :)

while ever he is taking drugs he will continue to be unreasonable ,if he cant accept your rules he shouldnt live in your house .I have a son (18) who doesnt live at home anymore for similar reasons ,it wasnt easy but it had to be done.He has changed ,thanks mainly to a lovely girl that he met but he isnt coming home just yet ,I am not ready for it :0(

I don't think I can call it harassment... They're just being teenage boys, mostly (except whoever burgl. It's just the sort of boys they are - swearing and shouty and drunk and sometimes stoned and over-physical and bored and looking for entertainment and without aspirations and... Oh god, I used to be a woolly liberal and now I'm turning into a bigoted reactionary ranter :(

Dunno what happened to that bracket... It was supposed to say (except whoever burgled me)

starmaker I'm sorry to hear that. I wish my son would meet a lovely girl...

I've not seen your other threads, but wanted to add - you sound like an amazing mum.

You are really trying to come up with an answer here. Not everyone would be so patient.

Which is what my 2p is - do you know, or could you get to know, the other parents? Are they only meeting up at your house? Is anyone else having similar difficulties? Would it be possible to get a few houses together who have a united front?

So sorry, this sounds like a real Catch 22.

I have to say that drug taking in teenagers is not "average" nor is it par for the course

personally, I would have zero tolerance for drug taking

one strike...you are out of my house

Christ, that sounds bloody awful. You have my sympathy.

I don't know what to say, other than it must be horrible to have all these aggressive teens everywhere. I would say that he is banned from having anyone around, but if you have done that and he ignores you, I don't know what to suggest other than you calling the police to get rid of them.

Is there any way he can go to his fathers for an extended holiday (or is his father really useless).

I would be furious at using your house as somewhere to come and take drugs as well.

It must be horrible to think that the only solution is to kick him out.

Sorry to be slow.

The police told me that I had the right to have whoever I chose in my home and that they would remove anyone that I didn't want to be there. This was stated very clearly to me and DS who was 17 at the time, this after a horrible episode of violence and self-harm by him which had seemed to be escalating.

nanky, thank you.:) I don't know if I'm 'amazing' (DS definitely doesn't think so) but I do try...

I can have conversations with one or two of the other parents; but the problem is that most of my son's friends are 18+ and have doormats for parents seem to be able to do what they like. :(

Golden, I think you misread... I said he "smokes and drinks like an average smoking-drinking teen"... I wasn't referring to his cannabis or m-cat use as 'average'. (Tho' they are absolutely endemic round here - it seems the majority of boys have used those two particular drugs. :() I do indeed have a zero tolerance policy for drug taking in my house, if I catch 'em at it. But if you mean I should have zero tolerance to my son's drug-taking anywhere else, then I don't, and I have to say I would find it unenforceable (How would I know what effect was drink and what was drugs?) and counter-productive, given that he would then hide more from me - and I doubt whether we would have got to this point, where he is now seeking help.

Getorf, yes, his father is truly useless... He hasn't seen DS for about 4 years: he lives abroad, and tho' he comes back to the UK once or twice a year, he never seems to find the time :(

noteven, that's good to know. I hope we don't get to that point - and I'm sorry you did - but it is an important safety net.

We have just had a long conversation (over an hour) which I think was useful. He seemed to understand that his friends are strangers to me, and having people I don't know and don't trust in my house makes me feel unsafe. He thinks this is stupid, but he seemed to accept it was important to me. He agreed -

• Not to bring anyone in my house without my permission
• Not to have anyone in the house when I am not there, for the time being, until I feel I can trust him again
• To introduce people to me if/when he brings them home
• That no-one will be able to sleep in my house unless they have at least sat down and had a cup of tea and a conversation with me (this was the one he was most resistant to - he says he would sooner not have anyone stay, because I am 'so embarrassing')
• That if he ever swears at me or disrespects me in front of any of his friends in my house, they all leave immediately.
• That this is a last chance.

I think I might write this up as a sort of contract...

Good luck, I really sympathise

oops, I have namechanged from GF, not sockingpuppetting, honest

OK that all sounds good but it will go out of the window next time he is under the influence of alcohol/drugs/peer pressure. Probably. Be uncool and reiterate the rules to his friends, I found that for us, the undesirable friends would often remind DS of what I had said, amazingly.
Can you offer him something if he DOES follow the rules? I used to make pizza on a given day for the hoards of kids I was incensed by in my house if DS had followed the rules (as well as being horrible, usually). He was manipulative about that in a 'We've been good so we get pizza, right?' way but at least the 'carrot' helped us all.
He came out the other side, be strong, they CAN do with luck and love. Sometimes that is not enough though, they have to want to help themselves and that sometimes does not happen until they reach a low, low point.

Thanks MN'sF and all.

Yes, I know you're right noteven. I'm hoping the drugs counselling he's just started will help him with saying 'no' to his friends.

I don't think a pizza-type bribe will work - he's just told me he'd sooner not have anyone to stay than have them drink a cup of tea with me, so he's really not keen on his friends meeting me. I suspect that's cos he's one of the youngest of the bunch, and the over 18s don't have to deal with parents at all, or he thinks they don't. To be honest, I'm not sure I could deal with it either - it would have been fine a couple of years ago, when they were all still kids, but now so many of them are 18/19 and think they're god's gift I don't think the simple pleasures of pizza would satisfy them I'd have to buy them beer and a quarter of skunk probably Oh god I hate this age.

I think it's right that my DS needs to get away from this circle of friends, but they're what/who he knows, and he's scared by they prospect of breaking away - they're all more-or-less neighbours so he's known them most of his life and they're hard to avoid. And I can't work out how to get him away right now.

Hi Flow I don't have any advice for you but I did just want to say that it will get better. My DB sounds very similar to your son - awful friends, horrible attitude, things going missing from the house. He really drove my poor mum to the edge. But.. he did grow out of it, hes now 24, married, stable job and couldnt do enough to help other people - the nice lad he was eventually came back.

I'm sure your son will be the same and I keep fingers crossed for you that its sooner rather than later.

It sounds like he is trying to make positive steps - the counselling, the BTEC - so hopefully these things will help him stop being such a giant shit!

I am furious on your behalf op, it seems you were probably burgled by someone your son owed money to for drugs. You have a right to live in your home without fear and intimidation and it IS classed as DV even where the perp is a young person/ offspring. Please please call women's aid for some RL advice. If you kick him out the LA will have a duty to provide accommodation, could be the wake up call he needs.

6 month sabbatical on a sheep farm in Australia! www.workaway.info/information-for-travellers.html is one website - costs ~£20 to sign up for 2 years to get information on people willing to host, you work in exchange for bed and board but would have to sort your own visa and airfare out there - however, it could probably be done on a tourist visa.
Actually, doesn't have to be Australia - could be a European country so no visa required - just go to the home page to see where the options are available.

Great opportunity, especially if he goes to a European country, he could learn a new language as well.

Better than the army?!

ping, thanks :)

blue, I did call WA at Easter, after the incident that caused me to have my son arrested. They were useless - The woman I spoke to did agree it was DV, but was totally at a loss to suggest what I could do, and didn't know of any support for mums in this situation. I also spoke to the police, YOT team and SS, who all told me that if I threw DS out because of the DV or drug use, they would consider him 'intentionally homeless' and so wd not have a duty to accommodate him. I would have to pretend to be throwing him out in a whim/for no reason and deal with all the 'bad mum' judgements that wd follow and then the LA would offer B&B. There seems to be a wide gulf between best practice and what actually happens.

I'm weighing up risks here, and trying to reduce them. The risks to DS1 if I do throw him out seem currently much greater than the risks to DS2 and myself if he stays. If this changes, I'll throw him out. Meanwhile, I'm hanging on in there.

Thanks Thumb. I'll check this particular one cos I haven't seen it before - all the others I've seen have been for 18+ only.

How much longer before he's 18, flow?

Sounds dreadful.

My advice is to get tough and throw him out.

You have your other child to think of too and the burglary would have done it for me there would be no going back from that.

Burlars smash back door windows! Yours used a key you are not safe in your own home you can get 5 locks on your door and it could happen again!

He will tell you what you need to hear just to get you off his back at that precise time.

You get what you put up with and all the while you allow this it will not end.

Throw him out you don't have to give those reasons. Let him stand on his own two feet if he thinks he's such a grown up.

Once he's in a B&B those 'mates' certainly won't be allowed to doss down there and therell be no fridge to raid (not to mention house to burgle) they may well drift away from him a bit.

You sound lovely and you really don't deserve this crap and neither does your youngest.

Get tough.

Id be making sure he knew that if he doesn't start to toe the line and obeying the rules, then he is out on his 18th birthday. Say it and mean it. You are not obliged to house him (and his mates) after 18.

Id also cut the funding. He works for his keep. If he does nothing in the house, then stop making him dinner, stop doing his laundry, stop being his taxi service.

I think he is walking all over you because you let him.

This probably isn't that helpful but it hasnt been mentioned yet: what about moving, as a family, away from this group of friends?

It seems like he is in a really difficult place and needs a fresh start away from "friends" like these. I know it sounds overreaction, but can you move house with him to a completely different area?

Amber, he doesn't think he's tough and he knows he doesn't want to be kicked out. That's my one hope.

Hatti, yes, already been doing all that for several months.

Bear, yes, still seriously considering that one, tho it wd be v difficult for DS2 and me.

Thumb, he's 18 in April.

Could the 3 of you up sticks and move away from the area? That would be my instinct.