Summer Holiday rules - opinions please

[dontagreewithit]

I posted something similar to this last year, but would appreciate thoughts and feedback on this again this year.

Dd1 is 15, dd2 is 13. Dh & I work full time (dh 5 mins away so available for emergencies). They will be occupied for 2 weeks of the holidays (grandparents and PGL), & dd2 has a drama summer school for the first week. Other than that, they will be occupying themselves. Dh may have one of the other weeks off, still to be decided.

The main conflicts in this house are between dh & the dds when they "don't see" rubbish / mess / jobs that need doing and he expects them to have dealt with it. Much as they hate it, I think it's good to have something written down so they are clear as to our expectations of them. Here is what I've come up with:

"Money
As last year, you will be given £20 per week each. This is to cover

• Lunches
• Snacks
• Entertainment / days out
• Fares to travel to / from entertainment / days out

Food will be provided at home for lunches, YOU MUST take the responsibility for liaising with dad to ensure that acceptable food is provided, or use your weekly allowance for purchasing lunch.

Chores
The following things should be dealt with on a daily basis. They must be completed before 5pm every day. Distribution of chores can be decided amongst yourselves. Non completion of chores will result in reduction of the following week's money.

• Crockery, cutlery, glasses to be removed from all rooms and placed in dishwasher
• Dishwasher to be turned on if full
• Dishwasher to be emptied if cycle finished
• All items of clothing / bags / shoes to be removed to bedrooms / hung up / put in shoe cupboard
• All rubbish to be in bins
• Kitchen surfaces to be wiped down
• Kitchen floor to be swept
• Other chores may be included on this list on an ad-hoc basis

Rules
The following rules will apply:

• No friends to come over unless previously agreed by a parent. If you are unable to get a parent's agreement, then the friend(s) cannot come over
• When going out, notify a parent where you are going, who you are going with and when you will be back. A text is fine.
• Ensure phone is charged so that if you go out, you can be contacted
• No friends in the front room, no eating / drinking in the front room
• Check with a parent before making arrangements that may involve lifts to / from places
• No staying up beyond midnight"

What do you think? Anything obvious I've missed out?

Something perhaps I should mention is that dh is a cinema manager, so one of the most expensive leisure activities they do doesn't cost them anything. Cinema is within walking distance (albeit 45 mins walk) so they can get there easily enough. Oh, and we have a cleaner, so there are no actual cleaning chores for them to do.

Blimey - I thought I was strict! It sounds as if they are bring left to their own devices for the whole 2 months. I assume you are coming home at teatime or early evening so will see them every day.

I would leave a "Things to remember and jobs to do Today" list each morning rather than a huge list of dos and donts which may only be read once and then forgotten about. Personally I would make the language a bit more teenage friendly - it does read rather aggressively I think.

You can ask them if they have charged their phones the night before - no need to list it. same with friends coming over. Have you planned anything for tomorrow/ is fred bloggs coming over - if so don't forget to stay in kitchen and don't take any food in the other rooms

A typical list I might leave when I have had to work and left dc here would be as follows

Eg - monday

Bin to go out (green lid one along with blue box and newspapers) (though it is easy to put that out yourself when you leave for work)

use up the salad in the fridge - beanburgers on 2nd shelf of freezer feel free to work your way through the fruit bowl - the ham is getting near its sell by date so defrost some rolls or find a tin of soup above the microwave.

if you run out of milk use your £20 to get some from the corner shop

Ring if you decide to go out or have someone round

I'll be back at 5 so you'll need to familiarise yourself with the hoover by 4 at the latest

all 3 of you to make sure the place is spotless before I get back joint effort

have a great time

mum xx

Don't think the list is unreasonable personally.

I can see what you mean about doing it each day, but if I ask them every night if they have charged their phones it will be seen as nagging & they are less likely to do it. I also don't have time to do a detailed list for each day. And I'm not always around (travel for work) & dh isn't reliable enough to do it that way.

I guess it's 2 sides of the same coin, I just think it will work better for us this way. The list will be displayed so they can't say they've forgotten what was on it.

But I did ask for input... So thanks!

Jesus! That's army style! Especially for the 13 year old. Shouldn't she have slightly less expected of her compared to her older sister? I'm not criticising just expressing opinion.

I have 3x Ds 16, 13 & 9. You have my sympathies! I think your list is quite reasonable and they shouldn't have to be told most of the things on it. However, I understand about writing it all out. My 3 will use all sorts of excuses about why things weren't done, or why it is someone else's fault, unless I make the instructions so clear that there is no room for argument.

I agree with eatyourveg a bit though. I would try and re word things like ' no friends to come over etc.' to 'friends welcome as long as a parent agrees in advance and all eating/drinking to be in the kitchen etc.'. With mine it just goes down better if it has a more positive spin.

I assume you've already covered it but I would sit them down and talk to them about the holidays and what behaviour you expect from them. I usually point out to mine that whilst it is their downtime and I understand they want to kickback and relax, they still have to make their contribution to the household. I would ask them what they think is a reasonable contribution bearing in mind that you and your DH are both out working all day and I would negotiate from there. If they make their case for something that matters to them and it goes on the list they might be more amenable to completing the jobs you've put on the list.

Other than wipe kitchen counters and sweep floor I would expect all the other items on your list to be done all year round not just in the holidays. (that doesn't mean they are though)

Also, if it is your husband that gets fed up of the mess etc. I would leave him to deal with your Dd about it. My DH works from home a lot and I found that when I came in at night he would be complaining to me about all the things the boys did/didn't do. I had to point out to him that it would be better if he spoke to them directly instead of using me as a middleman.

It's quite reasonable for your DH, as he leaves for work, to say " have a good day but when I come home I expect x,y,z to be done.

I think that at 16 and 13 (mine) it's reasonable to expect them to start to take responsibility for themselves, e.g. keeping you informed where they are, and to make a contribution to what's happening at home. However it can be hard work and as I said earlier you have my sympathies. Left to their own devices my elder two would stay up till gone midnight, sleep till 2pm, sit on their xboxes for the remainder of the day and wait till I got home to eat!

Good luck with that list of plans, I would rate it as unrealistic but I haven't met your kids, you know what they are capable of. I don't see why you are coming up with all those rules & guides if it's your DH who really has issues. HE should be sorting all this out.

Thanks for the input. I would be interested to know which of you that have commented actually have teenagers (other than mynewcat), because I (obviously!) don't think any of it is unrealistic. I absolutely will not accept working all day and coming home to a messy house with dishes etc all over the place, hundreds of friends hanging round, and demands for more and more money to fund entertainment.

I will present it as a "discussion document" rather than a fait accompli - and perhaps could word it a bit less "work" like (habits die hard). That's a great idea.

Don't think that it's unreasonable to expect the same from both of them. 13 is plenty old enough to be doing everything on the list. None of it is exactly hardcore stuff.

And donteatthevoleskids I didn't say I don't have issues with mess, just that DH is usually the one who gets mad about it, whereas I am a bit more laid back. It still pisses me off though. I do try not to intervene when he is arguing with them, and if either party complains to me, I refer them to the other. Doesn't stop me getting stressed about it though.

I'm not saying that anything on the list is wrong at all - just that I would convey it in a less authoritarian way but as DontEatTheVolesKids says, we don't know your kids or the family set up or how things usually work so in the end only you know how your family unit works and what your dc are most likely to respond to.

If you have done a list before which is similar to this one I assume it must have worked? That being so then there is no reason to doubt it won't work again.

ps yes my teenagers are 14 16 18 the younger 2 have autism - our lives have to revolve around rules its the only way to minimise the meltdowns.

Ime, saying for them to distribute the chores amongst themselves doesn't work. I'd have to tell A that they were doing x, y, z and B that they were doing u, v and w. Instructions are a bit long-winded for our family, but different strokes...

Aren't you having any fun at all as a family during the summer? Also ime, the older teenagers become, the more looking after they seem to need!

I think that is very reasonable, but I do think you should split up the chores between them. Maybe rota them- DC1 does points 1-3 in even weeks and 3-6 in odd weeks?

I think it's reasonable and am considering a similar list, after coming home from work the other day to find:

• plate from lunch (baked beans) on living room coffee table

• breakfast and other dirty crockery on kitchen worktop, despite me emptying the dishwasher before work

• baked bean juice and tomato seeds on chopping board

• DD2 had had a shower, and had taken the washing down from the line above the bath but then just left it on the floor in the landing, all day

• clean clothes left in bedrooms not put away (this is usual but still annoying)

I don't expect them to do any general family chores while we're out, but I do expect them to clear up after themselves.

Agree that telling them to share the chores might not work, and a clearer rota is better. Less arguments that way, hopefully.

No, we haven't got any family time planned during the summer . We have already had our family holiday (June 1/2 term) & will be spending some time together in October 1/2 term (going to Harry Potter Studios amongst other things), but measly holiday allowance from my firm doesn't allow me to take any more time (am off over Christmas, and had a week to go to a music festival with dd2's choir - so not quite Dickensian)

IMO your list is not aggressive at all. In my experience teens need to have things spelt out for them. Seems very sensible to me.

I have boys of 16 and 14.When they were little we did rules and lists but they would either laugh or resent it now. They would do most of the stuff you mention and more besides but wouldn't like to be ordered about. I agree with others who say it's very authoritarian and I thought I was a sergeant major.
I agree with the rules on going out and keeping in touch but there isn't much fun in there. Why on earth can't they have friends in the living room? It's their home too isn't it?
Why all the floor sweeping when you have a cleaner?

I didn't do lists when mine were that age.( all in 20's now), Just expected them to bring mugs dow from rooms and to do the washing up and clear up after using the kitchen, If I needed anything else done I would ask them on the day or the night before, They were allowed to go out when they wanted but if they were going to be back after me or DH then they let us know, None of them had a mobile before they were 16 so left us a note to let us know where they had gone, To me school holidays are for teens to relax not to be expected to do lots of chores.

Nothing wrong with what's on the list IMO.

But I think you need to be careful about the way it reads and sounds to teenage ears. I obviously don't know your kids.... But my experience of 15year olds tells me that some many of them might take one look at the 'list' and take offence, then break the rules out of spite.

I have a 16 yr old ds and a 13 yr old dd (and a 10 yr old, but that's not the point at the moment).
I went when I read your list.
Things like wiping the surface where they've made a drink / had lunch should be automatic - just what you do, not a "Job" written on a list. Same for things like bringing crockery down.
I don't leave mine with money either - so I'm a lot meaner than you in so many respects If they want to go out with friends, they go to the park or each others houses or use their pocket money. Food would be in the house anyway.
Just something odd about what's written on the list. Especially the not being allowed in certain parts of the house!
If I wanted mine to do something specific on a particular day (hang out washing I'd put in, or cut the grass or something, then I'd leave a note to that effect, but I wouldn't list out all stuff they should know anyhow.

I also trust them to be able to decide if they are going to meet a friend or whatever without them having to report in to me when I'm at work - if you can't do that, then I'm not sure you should be leaving them unaccompanied.

I think it's a really well thought out list. Ds1 likes to have things spelled out to him and having things written down means there is no argument about what I did or didn't mean.

The only thing I would change is the shared chores. You need to spell out who does what or there will be arguments.

I don't have teens (yet!), but I do have friends with teens. And they write big lists like you have & don't get much success for it. Then they rant about how useless & ungrateful their teens are; the lack of compliance with list seems to lead to much worse friction than the actual behaviour.

I tend to feel rather unsurprised that list didn't work.

OP, I am taking tips from you. Great idea.

Just to clarify a few points.

We have a cleaner once a week. They make a mess on the floor in the kitchen, don't see why I (or dh) should clean it up, or why it should be left for a week - iI like some semblance of cleanliness until she comes again.

The living room is meant to be an adult room. They have their own fully equipped sitting room, with sofas, TV, Wii etc etc.

Writing it all down is, as someone said, to avoid protestations of ignorance of what is expected.

I don't think these are too high in terms of expectations, there is plenty of time for having fun & I like to know where they are if at all possible, for my own peace of mind. I am definitely not an over protective parent.