11yr old DD hanging around with older boys (13)

[Mopswerver]

My 11 yr old DD has just come back from being out with two (girl) friends. A brother of one of the girls (13) and his friend hung out with them and they all played in a Den near the playing fields. The two friends announced they were going home leaving my DD alone with the two boys. She tells me that one of them started 'mooning' her and when she told him to pack it in the other also pulled his trousers down to reveal his pants, at which point she said that she was going as they were "sick". I was that she stayed with them when the girls went home and have told her that she mustn't go to the den or hang around with the boys in future. What have been your approaches to this kind of thing? I'm thinking of stopping her being "out" as opposed to at a friend's house or friends coming here to play. Advice needed please.

Honestly?

I think your reaction is a bit OTT. Yes the boys were being stupid, but unless they are the exception to the rule, most 13yo boys are a bit daft rather than predators

Yes, having calmed down a bit I think maybe I have been, but would you let your 11yr old DD hang out with boys who are older?

One girl, 2 older boys happy to dare each other on, not a great picture. These boys may merely be daft but the next selection of lads may try something worse.
I'd tell her not to stay behind on her own next time, in case those (or similar) boys try again to "pick on her" in that kind of way (or something more annoying). It's part of learning to watch our for herself.

Thanks ragged. It's knowing where to pitch it isn't it? I'm new to all this but I think I am with you.

I'm mum to a 12-and-a-half year old boy, so I spend a lot of time with 12 and 13 year old boys. They are barely aware that girls exist, and will only show any interest in ones that can act just like real people boys!

I don't have a daughter, and I know I might feel differently if I did, but personally I'd be pretty sure (and reassured) that these particular boys are pre-pubescent and not sexually aware, because 'mooning' and showing your pants are infantile not sexual acts. To be really blunt, if those boys had been 14/15 or any threat at all to your daughter, they would have been showing other bits of their anatomy, and/or inviting her to touch.

Emotionally and physically, most 12/13yo boys are as mature as, or less mature than, 11 year old girls - so the 'match' is much less unbalanced than it would be if your daughter was 13 and the boys were 15. But you're right to be alert, because this is a 'threshold' age, and of course soon your daughter will be 13...

Just to add and to be be clear... I'm not saying that it's OK for boys to 'moon' girls and show them their pants, and I'm not saying that this kind of behaviour can't be intimidating... To my mind, something is sexual harassment (even among 11-13 year olds) if it's unwanted and the person on the receiving end feels sexually harassed. But it sounds from your report that your daughter wasn't intimidated - her response sounds marvellously confident and assertive :)

Just to add and to be clear... I'm not saying that it's OK for boys to 'moon' girls and show them their pants, and I'm not saying that this kind of behaviour can't be intimidating... To my mind, something is sexual harassment (even among 11-13 year olds) if it's unwanted and the person on the receiving end feels sexually harassed. But it sounds from your report that your daughter wasn't intimidated - her response sounds marvellously confident and assertive :)

Thanks Flow. I don't have sons so it's hard to judge what's threatening and what isn't but yes I think in this instance they were just showing off and being a little excitable. I think it's been a bit of a wake up call to both of us though.

I'm reminded of a couple of anecdotes...

Firstly, something from my own childhood... When I was about 13, some girls my age were flashed by a man on Hampstead Heath. They screamed and climbed a tree, and were trapped there while he amused himself, which was horrible for them, obviously. In another instance, an American girl was also flashed, but she reacted quite differently: she looked at the man directly and said (apparently) "Well, it looks like a d*ck, but it's smaller" And so the man ran away! I can remember thinking (even at that age when I didn't know the word 'empowerment'!) that if it ever happened to me, I knew which response I would choose! I think we've got a bit better, a generation or two later, at bringing girls up to be more assertive and worry less about being 'nice', but as mothers I think we probably still do worry... :)

Secondly, I just remembered something that happened when my eldest son (now 17) was 12 or 13, in year 8... He and 5 other kids - 3 boys, 3 girls, all the same sort of age - were 'caught' at school behaving in 'sexually inappropriate' ways - cuddling each other, and (with one pair, but not my son) touching each other on the bottom and breasts. The school acted very promptly and pulled all the kids in for 'interview'. The member of staff who interviewed my son was a bit heavy-handed (imo) and used the phrases 'sexual harassment' and 'criminal behaviour'. My son was terrified and ran away from school. He came home; but since we live 5 miles from school, it took him 2 hours to get here, and it was a hairy time for me (and the school). When I talked to my son later, it was clear that, from his point of view, he was just hugging a girl he liked, and he had no idea that (a) she didn't like it and (b) that it was in any way 'sexual'. I was able to have a conversation with him about 'unwanted physical contact' and be very clear with him that he shouldn't ever touch a girl (or do anything else) without checking she wanted him to. He understood that, but it needed someone - in this case me and not the school - to talk in terms he understood. The school, by using the 'behaviour team' to talk to him, and the language it did, had only succeeded in letting him know he was 'in trouble', not in teaching him anything about appropriate sexual behaviour.

I suppose that's not directly relevant to you, now - but maybe it's interesting! - and it does illustrate how daft unaware 13 yo boys generally are!

I really appreciate that because yes of course it highlights that kids often don't realise that they might be intimidating someone with their behaviour. Your son sounds like he was mortified. If only more parents were like you Flow. Similarly I think girls need it pointing out to them that they may be placing themselves in potentially difficult situations sometimes.
God it's a minefield! I knew the Teens wouldn't be easy. I don't want to be be too over protective/angsty but at the same time you want them to avoid these kinds of situations. Things were bad enough when we were teens but now with the advent of phones/internet, it's every parents nightmare!

Haha, yes, it IS a parents' nightmare! When my son had his first girlfriend (he was 14, she was 13) I spent all my time running up and down-stairs on pretend errands to check they still had his bedroom door wide open and weren't up to anything, and I totally mortified him by insisting on getting her mum's phone number and having a (gulp) conversation!

However, to be fair, at this age I don't think it's always girls in difficult/vulnerable situations and boys being intimidating... My son split up with that girlfriend because she was hassling him to have sex, and had already planned their family (3 children, including their names ) and he was terrified! PHEW!

From what I remember, most of the 13-14 Yr old boys from school were pretty scared stiff of girls. But... when I was younger (maybe around 9 yrs), there was a 12/13 Yr old who used to hang around with us, and he was, in hindsight, abusive. Don't want to go into detail, but if our parents had any idea of what happened, they would be mortified!

I think you need to make sure your daughter knows her own boundaries, and what to do if she feels out of her depth.

This is all really helpful, thanks Guys. Yes Flow I know where you're coming from. I think my daughter may have stayed behind with these boys because she "likes" them. But of course at 11 she is that strange mix of innocence, naiivety and sexual curiosity. I'm just anxious that she doesn't find herself in a situation that she didn't see coming. Sitting you are right. I need to and have a chat with her set some boundaries.

It's helpful for me, too (adventurous 10yo DD in the house). She is quite used to seeing willies, though, would probably make a comment about finding a microscope if someone was daft enough to flash one in her presence.