Is there anything we can do about this?

[silver73]

We've been having huge problems with DS (nearly 17). We make agreements with him which he always breaks etc etc. He has now said he is going to an all night party that we don't agree with. We have allowed him to stay over with groups of friends etc but he has been out overnight 4 times this week. He just says he is going to do as he pleases. We are reasonable but 5 times in a week is excessive. He is doing four AS levels in a few weeks time and comes home so tired he does not do much work. Any attempts to reason with him end in horrible tantrums on his part.

He needs to grow up a bit. He'll be 'officially' an adult soon enough and needs to seriously think about how HE sees his future panning out. You can see that if he fluffs his AS exams the school/college may not allow him to go on to do the A Levels. You can see that he may well need to get a job to fund his lifestyle and that any career ideas may well be delayed if not
As him how he's going to do in his exams. Ask him if he has a Plan B if they don't go well. As him whether he's really thought this through.
If he's determined to do as he pleases, then suggest he considers how he could finance his own flat etc. as you cannot continue to house, feed and clothe him while he lives the life of Riley.
He could have left school at 16, but didn't, so HE opted to study.
I think you need to be hard and stick to your guns. I'm not suggesting it will be easy, but better to grasp the nettle now. He needs to know that you care but you're not going to sanction this sort of behaviour.

mine's the same - although he's 16 and coming up to GCSEs. We have had a million "agreements" but they fall through as soon as he decides he wants to do something different - unilaterally.
We are currently in the middle of an ongoing battle, where I am insisting on a maximum of 2 all nighters a week, for a return of 2 hours revision a day - even that is being tested to stretching point. We argued about whether 1 hour 50 mins was as good as 2 hours today (although he only did 1 hour 30 not 50 anyway!)
The point seems to me be that he just cannot physically/neurologically understand implications and consequences - his brain just does not compute this kind of reasoning. added to that he regards all attempts at encouragement as "blackmail"!

so - yes stick to your guns, as firm boundaries have to be the right thing to do, and give the right messages- but it might not be an easy ride. I am just consoling myself with the fact that once back at school it should be easier (for 3 weeks before the exams start!) that's it then - battle over whatever happens.

Exactly Gettingsorted, they need to realise that they and only they are actually responsible for their future. Mum/Dad/family can bribe, cajole, scream and shout, but on the day it is their work alone which will pass or fail the exam.

Its not like SATs, these tests actually count for something.
Pass GCSE - go on to AS Level
Pass AS, on to A
Pass A - maybe Uni beckons...

No GCSEs? - what's the options - college? Job with day release? Job? No way to cop out then though. College doesn't push for success like school does - students need to be self motivated. Job won't allow a couldn't care less attitude...

Reality check time!

Hiya

Thanks so much for both your posts. We have had a horrible afternoon with him. We have now taken away his Blackberry as that seems to be a huge problem. It was like living in a virtual world with all his mates. He would be arguing with us and sending Blackberry messages at the same time.

HangingGarden thanks so much for the line about him choosing to stay at school. I spoke to him about it and it seemed to have clicked with him.

It is breaking my heart as he seems to be intent on destroying his own world. He has always wanted to be a doctor and did extremely well in his January AS levels showing he could get AAAa if he continued to work. Even his school report said he was on track. He has done years of volunteering so he has a strong application and then this nonsense. I have had to explain to him that he is the one that wants to be a doctor and at this stage he either has to work hard for 6 weeks or decide to do something else...

There is one aspect of chemistry he was having a problem with so I booked a tutor for 2 hours today at his request however with this strop we did not even think he would be back in time for that as he has done a no show before.

Now Blackberry has been taken away for good, rules have been explained etc. He saw the tutor who really helped him and now our lovely boy is back. A few hours ago he was shouting and raging....

One question that really seemed to work on him was "would you put up with this behaviour from someone else?" - amusingly the answer was no...

It sounds to me like you are handling him very well indeed:)

I think he sounds very typical and frankly at 17 they just can't seem to get it through their heads that what they do now MATTERS... however if his AS levels were good he must be putting in some effort:):)

They just ARE a pain in the ass at times....and the stress of exams etc makes them nastier!

Incidentally my DD1 is now in her 2nd year of medicine, and chemistry was the one she found most difficult, so it's fab that he has extra support. Where has he applied for medicine? My DD1 is at Peninsula (Exeter Uni) and LOVING it. She used to work hard in the week, play hard at weekends and got the grades. Med students are also hard party goers, as they work very hard all week then go bonkers at weekends!

Hang in there:)

Mine won't be the popular decision here. However boys particularly at 16/17 are not necessarily any more mature in some ways than they are at 13. Of course most are v capable to do a levels, however college certainly shouldn't be poo pooed! in my opinion schools continue to treat 16/17/18 yr olds like the children they were when they started at 11. What they need is to learn that they need to apply themselves. College may not be as traditionally academic but it teaches you far more about life. This is vital in gaining any qualifications at all. I know so many boys who've stayed onto school doing what their parents wanted only to flounder and drop out a year in! I've also known these boys then go to college or into work and become v successful young men. As much as you are doing right by encouraging you can't make him work. Is he actually interested in what he's studying? Sometimes you find they've agreed to things thinking it's the easy option. I was v lucky even 20 years ago coming from academic background I went to art college, supported by my parents. It was so v different from school and I grew so much between 16-18. I became v successful without needing the traditional route. i know it's frustrating but it's important he wants to be doing what he's doing and if he doesn't is it right to push him so very hard.

Medusa - thanks for your post. He has not applied yet as he is in year 12 but is now booking open days. I wish he would study like your DD1. It sounds ideal as he is a very sociable boy and up to now has coasted and get great grades at GCSE but the jump to AS level is a big one so for the first time he has had to work. This is all he has ever wanted to do. Started when he was 5 and never went away. He started St John's at the age of 10 with this in mind and has been doing lots of volunteering and work experience that he sorted out himself.

Baby - we are supporting him in what he wants to do and have explained that he has to work hard for 6 weeks to get the grades and if he does not want to then he should be thinking of a plan B. When he admitted he was struggling a bit with chemistry we got him a tutor to help him which in the end he was very grateful for. My real worry is that it will break his heart if he does not get in and we are trying to get him through the next 6 weeks to try to protect him from that. He gets very tearful if we try to talk to him about a plan B.

The main problem at the moment is he has two very separate friendship groups so he parties with both of them. The result is his class mates meet up 2-3 times a week and then work hard for the other days. However, DS does not work hard for the four days he goes out with his other group of friends. He is also regularly going away for weekends. He had a blackberry for 3 weeks and that meant that he was then on that 24/7 so even when he sat at his desk he was constantly reading messages. He knows this is only for 6 weeks.

I agree about the schools. DS goes to a normal comprehensive but you get emailed if they think your child is not fulfilling their potential. This is good in some ways as I would like to know but I do think they need to speak to their pupils because at nearly 17 there is very little we can do to make them work.

We have explained about balance that you need to do some work and then go and enjoy yourself but you cannot expect your brain to be able to do anything if you have had no sleep the night before and come home to revise and then go off to party again.

All quiet here at the moment...

5babyangels it was never my intention to pooh pooh college courses. My point was only that the student at college needs to be self motivated. Colleges of further/higher education really do work better for some students, but they can find it harder work as they have to recognise that unlike school they won't be spoon fed, or pressured as you say like children in a school environment. They have to learn to take responsibility for their actions. You are also right that colleges can offer courses which schools are unable to, so will clearly be a sensible option for some students.

Its all about learning and becoming what we want to be after all

I have 4 boys of my own so I really do sympathise. I just remember so vividly my brother who is much much younger than me, going straight into 6th form and it being a total disaster. He just about managed AS level and then left. He then floundered for some time....worked in the sellotape shop for about a year and then eventually found a good job and has worked his way up. My sister older than me went to same academic school we all went to...got 8As and 2 Bs joint third in the year, before days of A* and then completely bummed out in 6th form and got 2Ds. I don't think necessarily everyone is ready to make a decision about what they want to do for the rest of their life at that age. I know my little bro wishes he had gone to college now at 16 and my sister thinks the same.

My saturday girl is also struggling with 6th form....she hasn't done the work expected. She's looking at all of it and finding it just too much. I have said to her just do little bits at a time. if you break it up it doesn't seem so overwhelming. set small goals for each day.

I think things are so much worse for our teens in this economic environment because job wise there is not much out there so if they don't go to university they may be unemployed for a long time.

The jump to AS from GCSE is massive.. and for the majority it comes as a bit of a shock! Both my girls (DS1 sensibly went Btec route as he is not so academic) absolutely sailed through GCSEs..all A/A and then got a bit of a wakeup call when they had their first AS exams... in fact DD1 was told she would fail her Biology A level! It was only after that she got her head down, and in the actual event got an A and the highest score in her school:)..actually got 100% UMS marks!

DD1 struggled even more as she was hit with Glandular Fever last year and missed a lot of school.. we have hired an online tutor for the subject she was struggling in and it's been well worth the cost as she is now up to speed and hopefully headed for Nottingham Uni in september. She didn't work hard enough last year and has had to put massive effort in this year (A2) ...which to her credit she has, but she just didn't realise how different A levels would be.

Silver.. My DD1 KNEW she wanted to be a doctor from the age of 4...never swerved from it, and heaven only knows what would have happened if she hadn't got her place.. but tell your son to keep at it.

Having been through the hideousness that is fighting for a place, I would advise you and he look very carefully at the med schools different requirements before applying too.. some are after all A at GCSE before they even look at your personal statement, some are more interested in your work experience, others your ethical reasoning.. DD1 chose Peninsula because she liked their problem based learning approach (and Exeter itself), while others prefer lecture based learning.
Good luck to your son.. he sounds like he has the drive and skills.. just needs a kick up the bum to get the work in:)

This age is a nightmare. I was actually spending a lot of hours in tears this time last year! But we stuck to our guns and now he is nearly 18 and has turned a HUGE corner. He dropped out of college this time last year and did nothing all summer. But since going back to square one in september he has defintiely grown up.We constantly stopped internet and money which tbh had little effect and we told him we loved him but didn't like him much. It is really difficult but eventually we just said whatever and shrugged our shoulders at him and he gave up I think . Hang in there it will stop but you have probably got another year or so before you can reason with him

Medusa - that really strikes a cord with me. That is exactly how I feel I just don't know what he will do if he does not get a place at medical school. I have told him that if he gets his 3 A grades but does not get a place he can just get better work experience and apply again. I know someone whose DS took 3 attempts to get in but eventually got in because he already had AAA and therefore could only strengthen his application each year. I just want to protect him from himself as he really is a Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde character at the moment. One minute working hard and excited about the future and the next just a party animal... What online tutor agency did you use? Sounds a really good idea. Chemistry tutors are like gold dust and very hard to get even a couple of hours....

Noddy - I was in tears all day yesterday. We allowed him to stay at a friends for the night on the understanding that he would be back at 1pm. Again he was over an hour late with the tutor he had asked for due... We have had a week where we negotiate things with him and all come to an agreement however as soon as he goes out he just turns off his phone and won't keep to his side of the agreement.

I THINK it was tutor hunt that we used in the end.. we did try one who didn't 'fit' my DD2 very well..one in person, and I was rather dubious about doing it online but the tutor is young and has amazing references and appealed more to my daughter so we decided to give it a go and it is FAB. They work via skype.. so no travel costs, they have a weekly time when they both log in from home.. tutor goes through topics and they work through exam questions etc and she has sent her fantastic notes ..sadly she does Biology and Geography not chem or I'd link you to her directly.
DD2 resat the summer AS at Xmas and moved up two grades!!!! I have been very impressed with online tuition and would definitely say it's worth a go. I will email her and see if she can recommend anyone for chemistry..if she knows anyone I'll post back here :)

Take a big deep breath...and admit there is nothing you can do to make him work for his exams. It takes a lot to step back and let him make his own mistakes, but that is what you have to do. I also have a DS who desperately wants to be a doctor. He didn't get a place because of his less than brilliant GCSEs ( he never bothered to do the course work). But he did eventually get his act together and came out with 3 As and 2 Cs at A level. This happened completely independent of anything I said or did. He is now at Uni, and is working hard and hopes to do a post grad medicine course. He just needed to grow up a bit.
All I did was put up with revision stuff taking over the house, and fund an Easter revision course (well worth every penny) for his weakest subject.
Hang in there

Strangely he has been working today after a long talk. We removed the blackberry and saw an immediate improvement in his behaviour. We also removed internet access for xbox and ps3 for the day. A friend said she had to do this with her son. The immediate response was not favourable but he decided to do some work and then got it back.

Brightspark1- Sorry to hear about your son not getting a place at medical school. Loads of people do it after a degree. My son's GCSEs are not stella so he is going to have to be careful with choices. Do you know what sort of GCSE grades medical schools need? DS has 1 A* 8A and 3Bs but it has been suggested that these are not good enough...He got grade A in 3 sciences, English lit and lang , maths, language, history....

It might be different this year as last year there was a stampede for places because of the hike in tuition fees. But last year it seems that straight A/ A*s were needed plus a good UKCat score. It's also important to have work experience or voluntary work under his belt, at a care home or hospital. He could try working as a feeding volunteer during the summer holidays, or working at a play scheme. This would boost his chances. Don't feel sorry for my DS, I think he learned an important lesson and is having a whale of a time at uni doing a subject that he enjoys that will stand him in good stead for PG medicine, and is doing voluntary work with people with mental health difficulties. He will get there in the end. Good luck

Medusa - thanks very much for that.

Brightspark - thanks so much for that too. It makes me feel so much better as it sounds like your son in on track for PG medicine and my son could do the same so won't worry so much. DS's voluntary work is quite good. He has 5 years St John's ambulance experience, teaches, has spent a week showing doctors and nurses at a hospital and now does once weekly hospital volunteering. Could I ask what Easter revision course your DS went on?

It was run by an outfit called justinCraig.ac.uk. It was residential and very full on, and he came home with a detailed report and specific areas to work on. I was very impressed. He was a lot more confident and focused in his revision afterwards.

Thanks so much for that.