I'm a failure as a parent, ds3 hates me - I wish I were dead

[SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius]

Pretty melodramatic, I know - but I feel like an utter failure and the boys would be better off without me. Apparently I am lazy, do nothing, nag, interrupt, never listen, and ds3 has a shit life compared to his friends.

Tonight we have been told that we are horrible for having made him contribute to the iPod touch he wanted for Christmas last year (or maybe the year before). With three kids, and a big mortgage, we couldn't afford to spend that much on each of them, and said we would contribute towards one if that was what he wanted - but now that makes us failures as parents, because his school friends have big tvs and xboxes in their rooms and even bigger tv and xbox downstairs and one has even been bought a porsche to do up, even though he is too young to drive.

But then we were told we were also bad parents for not saving money over their childhoods so we would have had the money in the bank to pay for their maintenance at university - they aren't entitled to maintenance loans and we didn't find that out until this year. How the hell are we supposed to have spent less and saved more over the years whilst at the same time making sure they had all the shiny gadgets that their friends have??

I suffer depression anyway, and this just makes me feel like a total failure. He swears at me (not all the time, but if I make him cross). And I shouldn't make him cross - I should ask him nicely to do things, not nag or rant - but when I have been asking them something for years and years, even the most trivial thing can become hugely frustrating - hence me ranting yesterday at the bloddy loo roll not being changed AGAIN!!

Ds1 (18) is pretty civilised, though organisationally challenged, and ds2 is usually pretty reasonable - though he got arsey with me yesterday because I was ranting about the loo roll thing. Apparently I should be showing them a better example of kindness to others, rather than threatening not to get loo roll if one of them finds themself stranded in there with no loo roll, because one of them hasn't replaced the one he used up. I know it is massively trivial, but I have asked nicely over and over and over again, and nothing changes - this was all I could think of to try to get the message home - the message being that the consequences can be pretty unpleasant if you don't do the simple task of putting a new loo roll on.

Apparently they 'forget' - because it is so bloddy difficult to remember that a new loo roll is needed in the huge amount of time that elapses between using the last of said loo roll, washing one's hands and exiting the loo. And I should just leave lots of loo rolls in there (where the dog can get at them, and has, in the past, shredded them), so that it won't matter if they forget.

Congratulations if you have read this far. Form an orderly queue to give me a slap and tell me to buck my bloody ideas up and stop making such a big thing out of a loo roll - but honestly, it was the last straw.

I don't have teenagers but it sounds like standard teenage angst to me - and some self pity thrown in (from him, not you!) Pay no heed to his complaints, stand your ground imo. Does your DH back you up?

The loos rolls - I get your frustration but that may be a battle you don't win for a while. it will click with them one day.

But I hope they do not talk to you negatively all the time . They need to know they are part of the family and everyone in the house deserves respect and kindness.

Pick your battles. Things like getting homework done and laundry and them not going out and getting wasted are more important than loorolls. I've only learnt most of this in hindsight, btw...

Never rise to the insults, don't engage ( apparently 'you should be' what? - good god!) and ignore or laugh off as much as possible.

I'm a great believer in 'Doing it Now'.

You: It's rubbish day tomorrow, can you bring your rubbish down now, please?'
DS: Later.
You: No, I'd like you to do it now, please.
DS: Oh,ffs (etc, Kevin-type mumbling on and on)
You: (keep on insisting in reasonable tone - he could have done it by now, etc)

   (stomping sound effects)

DS: There. Are you SATISFIED?
You: Yes, that was very helpful, thank you

Waving to you SDT. So sorry that home is so difficult for you. Have some of the same stuff myself. Spend my time thinking I can't bear another day of jolly family life and looking forward to DD leaving home and dreading it. I have forgotten how to be nice in the face of rudeness, entitledness and laziness. I don't have an answer and feel as you do that I have really failed as a parent. Think tallwiv has a point but it's hard to keep that up. Just keep on trying - perhaps our teenagers will be lovely by the time they are 25!

Isn't that the conversation that's supposed to end with you shouting, iPod, iPod? I'm my day we got a cardboard box between us and we were happy...there's children in Africa who'd be glad to change the toilet roll because that would mean they had some - you can have as many gadgets as you want and sit round with unwiped arses all you want when you're paying the bills and other such hyperbole

or is that just me that does that?

Your DC's don't hate you. They are teenagers and this sounds like normal teenage behaviour. I agree with another poster who said pick your battles. On the maintenance loan all students are eligible for about 75 percent of it. You get this if you don't get your income assessed. But you can get more if it's assessed but not everybody gets this.

Thank you all for taking the time to reply - and for not just putting me on the naughty step for over-dramatic behaviour.

Tallwivglasses - that sounds like a good approach, and I will try it. Reasonableness in the face of teenagerdom is the approach I aim for, but clearly I missed by quite a large margin here, and let my frustrations get the better of me.

I do worry that I have damaged the boys, ds3 most of all, because I have had depression throughout their lives.

Mummee - I will go back and look at the maintenance loan information - it may be different because we are in Scotland, but the way we read it was that the dses would only be eligible for £995 per year towards their maintenance - we have to find the rest, which could add up to over £60k over the 6 years when the three of them are at university. It would be amazing if we were wrong about this, and would take such a huge burden off dh - and a lot of guilt away from me, because I blame myself for not finding out about the loans when they were little so we could have cut back on our expenditure and saved instead.

It really annoys me that as parents we are under so much pressure to have the latest and greatest things for ourselves and our kids.
What are they going to grow up like if they always get everything new and shiny and when they want it!
I'm fairly lucky in that my kids dont buy into that, but I do and find it harder all the time to keep a level head and not want to keep up with everyone.

Loo roll is a red herring. Sounds like you were displacing some of your frustration with them into the loo roll rant. If it were about loo roll, I'd be inclined to agree with them and fit a spare loo roll shelf or cupboard on the wall. It is easy to forget. Enough about loo roll.

Sounds like your DS3's attitude to possessions and stuff stinks, not helped by these mates who apparently roll around in luxury items. Can he do some voluntary work with people less fortunate?

You are in the right here regarding material stuff, don't back down and try and ignore the whinging about how life is so hard. But do try not to nag and rant at them. Make the consequences of not doing tasks negative for them not you. Give egs of what winds you up the most and the good folk here will suggest how to make that impact on their lives and not yours.

I am surprised by the maintenance. I was entitled to lowest maintenance 3 years ago, but it was £3,000 a year.

You can't have known about it when they were little as the government doesn't decide uni finance stuff until 18 months before you go! The situation is already vastly different to when I went!

Also, if they choose to go to university, they can get student loans like everyone else. I'm not saying I agree with the system but it's the same for everyone. They could always get a job or learn a trade or star their own business or do VSO etc etc.

You're a springboard and a safety net, but not the bank of mum and dad.

I've just googled maintenance loans and apparently the first 72% is payable irrespective of your parents's income.

I gave up on the loo roll thing years ago. There's a bin on one side of the loo easily reachable from it. But no, ds takes the tube and puts it on the other side of the loo. He'll put a new one on but only because the shelf has a leaning tower of pisa of rolls on it.

That's what they're entitled to

and that's the rates

If you're on under £35 000, they'll get the full loan and then it's a sliding scale after that...and they can work part time, most students do.

Sounds like typical selfish, hormonal, self-centred teenage behaviour. Got one just like it! According to him everyone's always better off/got better stuff etc.

How about suggesting he gets a Saturday job to pay for some of the gadgets (or is he too young?). He may find out that jobs (even Saturday jobs) are REALLY hard to come by - as is money these days as the recession bites.

I've given up ranting about messy rooms/wet towels on the floor etc. It was wearing me out! Good luck and chin up - he'll be lovely by the time he reaches 22......

Thank you for that info, tabulehrasa - I've rung the number on that site, and apparently when two of them are at university at the same time, dh's income is effectively split between the two of them, so only half will apply for the purposes of working out how much loan they can apply for. That, plus the info you have linked does make things look better, and I am really grateful.

Berni - perhaps what we need is some sort of teenage National Service, so we can send them away when they hit the Kevin stage, and get them back when they are civilised.

Not sure if he is going to survive the next 8 years ......

oh also they don't expect parents to make a financial contribution if they can't be found - so you can always run away and leave them to it

Don't think that hasn't crossed my mind!!

sounds like hes a normal selfish self centred teenager to me , Ive girls and they are no better , all their friends have bigger better and more of *things jeez 1 friend gor a car last christmas, not sure whate age he is but i tend to hit the ignore button when my kids start ranting about how unfair life is , its tough titties i suggest he gets a job to pay for his stuff , you havnt failed him because he hasnt got a 50 inch tv , try and not nag let them have dirty bums then they wont forget the loo roll again . x

Do you have honest financial conversations with your children - I mean do they have a rough idea how much the family income is, just how much an X box, 50 inch plasma TV etc cost? Because surely by their age they should have some idea of what their family's means are. And they aren't too young to know that some people who appear to have more money than your family because they have loads of stuff aren't actually better off, they are in crippling debt which wakes them sweating in the night.

Oh you are not a crap mum at all.
You are sensibly keeping an eye on finances, but they just see it as you being mean.
My dd and I had a fight yesterday which got physical...what a rubbish mum I have been feeling. Within half an hour we both apologized, hugged, cried...both are hormonal and too similar as well.
Never feel guilty about putting your foot down about buying stuff...... Ds 12 has put COD on his list and I told him this morning no. He is too young and I don't feel comfortable with it....he moaned a bit and then said maybe he could have new football boots instead. Just pushing the boundaries.

Be strong and stick to your principles ( let the loo roll go!)

Loo rolls are apparently an international bone of contention - my Kiwi cousin said a fortnight ago it was the thing that made her see completely red (at which point DS went and changed the one in the loo...) so don't worry about it. let it go - but if you freak again, roll with it...Depression too v common - and not your fault. But same lovely cousin once said to me "if i had a migraine, people would understand if I got treatment- so I do for depression" - and I have followed her advice - are you doing enough for yourself, in whatever way suits you?

There's another thread on here about the awfulness of teenage boys - and my teenage god daughter was challenging. But they do grow up to be lovely young people and the most recent research shows that this period of awfulness is necessary for their brains, if not good for ours.

Keep on cherishing yourself- you're fine, they're just teenagers.

you cannot possibly be that bad a mum if they are all aspiring to university, well done. as for the rest if i wasnt sat here eating an egg sandwich i would swear i had written it! my ds1 acts exactly the same and add the ongoing saga of 'dont leave it in the hall' 'turn it down' to the loo roll rant and there you have my home life

oh yes I would like to come in on the loo roll thing because it really strikes a chord : For about a year I constantly went into the upstairs loos in extremis to find bare cardboard roll on the floor behind the loo. Cue; me screaming to DC whilst on the loo to please urgently bring some up. Which, bless them, they always did.
However would they put a new roll on the holder ever. No they would not.
I didn't rant, just quietly seethed.
Then one day I brought up 5 loo rolls per loo and put them on a shelf/inside cupboard in each. I kept this up, and the resulting lack of stress in relation to entering the loo has been remarkable.

In relation to how awful a parent one is for making them think about money. One answer is to spend more of it on yourself. When they want an ipod explain that you are thinking of getting yourself and dh an ipad each first with your hard earned money, and they are welcome to get a holiday job to pay for theirs. Ensure you have dh support on this. Such an approach shuts dc up remarkably quickly. Or develop an expensive but reasonable taste for opera.

Even better we found is to give them an allowance paid by regular order into an account eg 40 per week paid on friday, which sounds a lot to a teenager. Explain to them this is for clothes, going out, treats and misc expenses and they are free to spend it how they wish. This worked really well though you have to be tough about not topping it up unless its a birthday/christmas. Encourage them to save 10 a week of it for their post a level eurorail trip. Clothes doesn't include shoes and coats but includes underwear.

No loo roll, no allowance in my house. It is the one thing that I ask ds to do, and I get really pissed off it if it isn't done.

As for the others have x y and z - it's rot. Some will, some won't. I don't give a flying fuck if anyone has a TV in their bedroom, as I don't approve of that, so we have 1 TV in the house (not a massive flat screen either, it's small) , and we negotiate on what we want to watch.

I've had to have the 'things are getting tight, please send chocolate' discussion with ds (16), who understands that costs are rising, his Dad's salary isn't, and that for him to go back for sixth form in UK will cost, so we have to make some cuts now. He certainly doesn't have the iPads and iPhones that the others have, but then again, he has a good standard of living, so he isn't badly off.

Am glad I read this thread. I have 2 ds 16 and 18, what a happy home I have. As someone else said, when they leave I will shed a tear, but I will also be dancing around like the fairytale animals in the Shrek move when he goes out and leaves them in this house.