I feel so ashamed

[indesperation]

In desperation I'm resorting to MN - my relationship with my 17 year old DS has been deteriorating for the last 18 months. He is constantly pushing the boundaries and regularly uses foul and offensive language, to me and my DH, when an argument is not going his way. I do take some blame as I know I have been a controlling parent, but am desperate to try and keep him on the straight and narrow.

His behaviour has been risky, he doesn't abide by school rules and is now retaking Y12 after failing last year (literally hanging on by the skin of his teeth). After a fairly wretched week (trying to supervise revision) and being told in no uncertain terms by DH last night that he is not going to London for the w/e (he has make or break exams all next week, if he fails he will be asked to leave school), he announced to me this evening (DH away on business) that he is going to London (with a friend we do not approve of) and there is nothing I can do about it.

The swearing, aggressive tone and body language started again and before I knew what had happened I stood up and slapped his cheek. It really shocked him, and made him very angry, he threw his food all over my laptop and then stormed around telling me he was going out, wouldn't be coming back tonight, and wouldn't be going to his saturday job tomorrow. When he asked me why I had done it I tried to explain that I was at the end of my tether, that no amount of give and take, cajoling, supporting, etc seemed to be making any difference to the way things were going. Half an hour (and very loud angry rap music later) he skulked in, apologised under his breath and went out. I feel ashamed, but I don't feel sorry. We don't seem to be making any progress. I desperately want our relationship to be open and honest and I want to be there for him - I do love him very much, but there are aspects of his personality and behaviour that I really don't like. I fear we are a long way from a resolution - everyone says it will work itself out eventually! I've read a lot of the teenage posts and can sympathise with pretty much all the issues, I feel really worn down, and am afraid for what's coming next.

Sympathy!!! I feel for you. Am no stranger to this board myself.

He apologised.... Good..... Did you?

I didn't apologise, he went straight out, and now I feel awful hence my post. My reaction was out of frustration and desperation - I have never, ever slapped him before, no excuse I know, but I felt offended and undermined by the language he was using towards and in front of me. I feel certain he was taking advantage because DH is away.

I have been where you are with my ds and I really thought there was no way back. We had got into such a spiral of his attitude and me just not able to take it. His language attitude everything was really a nightmare and his college work was suffering and he eventually left. We existed in teh house together with a terrible atmosphere until one night at dinner my dp who is the sweetest most tolerant person snapped with how he was talking to me and slapped him. I don't know which of us was more upset tbh and that was the end. He walked out nearly taking the door off the hinges and we didn't ring him or try and find out where he was etc etc and after 2 nights at a friends he wrote us a letter and came home and said he just couldn't back down. That was about 3 months ago and life is back to normal and in many ways is really good because of it. He knows now that we are just people with limits and he says it all became clear to him how much we had done for him. We sat him down and said this really is the end of the road for this behaviour and kept it very straight faced and serious but also told him we loved him to bits but didn't like him much and he would have to earn that. He started a new course in Sept and is loving it and doing well and he is so much more respectful although he is still 17 and a pain at times but he is just so much happier. Ds went from saying he would never forgive dp to agreeing he probably deserved it and is surprised we didn't crack sooner. Would you feel able to ask him to leave? It really worked for us I totally understand what you are going through it is torture living in a war zone.

thank you noddyholder! My DH absolutely wouldn't support me if I asked DS to leave - he already believes that we are driving him away. DS talks all the time about wanting to leave home and we try to explain, calmly, that without any decent qualifications and some sort of career aims/pathway/work ethic he simply will not be able to support himself (me and DH both work hard to give our sons a comfortable home and a good life - we pay his phone, most of his clothes, we finance him completely on holiday etc). I really do want him to find something he is passionate about (beyond 'just chilling' with friends) so that he has a focus for the future. Nor do I want him to leave, but this is torture and yes, we are walking on eggshells never knowing when the next flair up will be. We have an older DS doing very well at uni, very focussed and always more compliant growing up. We have been conscious that there may be underlying issues, but we never openly compare the two of them.

We also pay everything and even in the middle of all this funded a trip with his mates to barcelona Everyone said we were mad but it was a break we all needed.I don't mean ask him to leave home but next time he flares take his key and tell him to go. He will come back as they do know a good thing. What does he like? Does he have a part time job?

It is a shame you are alone and the London thing has come up. One of our final big rows was when ds came back from Barcelona and was still being vile and announced he was going to Bestival. I thought he wouldn't as he has no money and dp spoke to him and said apart from the money his behaviour was so bad and festivals etc were treats. On the night though he left the house at 3 am left a note and went to his mates to wait for a lift. i woke at 7 and had a feeling he had gone. I knew where he was and went there in the car with dp and his friends mum said she wouldn't give him a lift anyway knowing what he had done. He really was shocked to see us there at 8am in his mates kitchen drinking coffee but it was also a bit of a turning point.It was about a week later that dp slapped him and so all in all a nightmare time. I took ds's key initially as well and he had to come and go as we said. After a few weeks we gave it back. He has changed so much but also so have we. I think we were too giving in many ways and he just thought he could do anything. He didn't respect us but he does now! I stopped washing, money,took his key and made very little conversation. We went out to the cinema and for meals etc without him and just generally got on with our lives and it shocked him. I really think it is better to have it all out in one go now rather than let it go on forever. i wish we had acted sooner

I wont pretend I have been through this, I havent. However, I have teenage children so understand the breaking free that is teenagerness.

A few thoughts which spring to mind:

• you say you want to keep your DS on the straight and narrow. Are you constraining him too much?
• Is it time for him to face the consequences of his own lack of study?

It is hard to see your child apparently fail through their own inaction. Your son is nearly a grown up but it sounds like he needs to grow up further.

My MiL did say to her DSs (including my DH) 'I love you but right now I dont like you'.

You would be well within your rights to reduce the luxury that you provide in your son's life. This doesnt mean you have to put him on bread and skilly just that he starts to be treated as a resident adult rather than an indulged child.

thanks for all your advice - I have been thinking about no longer doing his washing, and am planning not to renew his phone contract (he manages to go way over his allowance most months!) which expires tomorrow. I have told DH by phone about what's happened this evening and he will be furious if DS goes to London as he says. We hope that common sense prevails in the end - the problem is we feel he is being influenced by one friend in particular. Thanks so much again, in fact I've found it a real help knowing there are others out there with similar experiences. I think it's a difficult time, between child and adult and trying to break away. Thank you!

yes, I fully appreciate the points you make (GnoneDePlume) - we have been too controlling but he also needs to grow up and face the music.

Sorry but he is 17 and nearly an adult. It sounds like you have been much too controlling....you 'supervise his revision'?? Obviously you want him to do well but by forcing him and controlling him you are going to make him kick back more, which I think is understandable at 17 in response to an overly controlling parent. That is not to excuse his unreasonable or unpleasant behaviour, but I think you need to look at your own position and behaviour in all of this. And slapping him is obviously the wrong thing to do - it could lead to long term problems with how he feels about his relationship with you.
His saturday job is his responsibility - if he stays out tonight and doesn't go in tomorrow, so be it.
So, unfortunately, is his studying. You can encourage but you can't push.
I think the way forwards is to have a frank but friendly talk when he comes back and say that you want to find some common ground with him and work out a compromise. Tell him that as he is nearly an adult that he needs to lose the childish and unpleasant behaviour and be a bit more mature with how he is at home, and you in turn will back off a bit and show him a bit of respect for the young adult that he is.....i.e. his studying is his responsibility and that he is entitled to a degree of freedom to make his own plans etc. Let him know that as he is nearly adult and that you will be treating him as such you therefore do not need to do his washing for him etc.

The best way of changing the behaviour of others is to change your own.

thank you Selks, I completely agree with everything you say and I have been trying to back off. By supervising, all I meant was being around at home, in and out doing chores, rather than at work all day, offering to make hot drinks/lunches etc that was the extent of it). And yes, turning up for work is his responsibility. There seems to be something in our relationship which constantly draws us together then apart and so it goes on. I'm finding it really hard to distance myself. But I do plan to try and talk to him when he gets home to explain what is going to change and why.

There is so much wisdom here on the Teenagers board. I am always in awe of everyone I see here.

I say back off a bit too, and cut the supply of money drastically.

Eliminate the hovering behaviour and displays of anxiety about school results (including small and seemingly innocuous details like making lunches and bringing drinks). The whole idea here is to make him motivated to do all that stuff for himself and gradually take more and more responsibility for the direction of his own life and the sorting out of its minute details on his own shoulders. You can't get him to take all of that on while simultaneously taking care of the details of his life and trying to instill all his motivation for him.

Teenage boys are large immovable objects and what works for a child whom you can physically restrain or overpower does not work for them. They need more and more day to day responsibility for themselves, not a continuation of the sort of mothering that was necessary and that worked when they were children. The backing off needs to be done without explanation on your part or any attempt to have him see it as part of a treatment programme for his problems, because it's not, and it will benefit you and your DH just as much as your DS.

It is a natural process that ideally would take place without problems spurring it on. He must not see it as a punishment but as something that is happening naturally. If it helps, remember that the development of autonomy involves giving them freedom to make mistakes, to misjudge things, and to have to take the consequences of their actions into account themselves without having you reminding them at every turn. The learning curve is steep for some and painful to watch. But learning does not happen for some kids unless they do it the hard way.

You will need to tell him about the financial elements you have envisioned for him, but do this in a completely matter of fact manner, with no sarcasm along the lines of 'since you're such a big shot/Mr Big Boy Pants now you'll be able to pay your own way', or attempts to link the cutting off of funds to his poor school performance. Just say 'It's time'.

When it comes to school motivation, often a child will consciously rebel against a parent's expectation even though doing so is to massively shoot himself in the foot. They will also rebel in this area because it makes failure at something that is actually difficult for them seem cool or give it a veneer of being part of something more important. Ironically, focusing on the school performance on your part, especially when there isn't much corresponding assumption of personal responsibility for the DS in other areas (laundry, meal prep, family chores, paying his own way) often has the result of increasing that tendency to rebellion and self-defeating attitude to school. The bigger the deal you make about the school results, the more you try to make his life about school results, the worse they will become. The school results have to be approached in the context of a bigger picture that involves autonomy and personal responsibility for your DS and the difficult job for you of letting him make his own mistakes. You are right that you are all on a gerbil wheel that is getting nobody anywhere right now.

Haven't read through all of the posts so apologies if I've misunderstood..

Reading between the lines, it could be that he isn't happy at school hence why he isn't succeeding there. Why don't you look into him getting an apprenticeship instead? The reason why I'm saying this is because my neice went through something similiar and was basically taking out her fustration on the rest of the family. She spoke to connexions and transferred onto an apprenticeship and was like a completely different person. She was on course to achieve A's in her A Levels so it wasn't like she didn't have the ability, wasn't behind in any of her work etc - she just felt that she had outgrown school. When everything has calmed down it might be worth talking about it.

thanks Grinch! I agree with you, and this is something we are concerned about. We agonised over the alternatives after results day - DS wouldn't meet with connexions, but we went to a job fair and investigated college courses. At the time he thought A levels were more valuable (rightly or wrongly) and was adamant he wanted to stay at school. I think he was afraid of the alternatives, being out of his comfort zone, and away from friends. But his recent behaviour certainly suggests he's not a happy person right now, and is feeling stressed.

All the posts have been a help, some more than others, and since the w/e I am consciously backing off, with a wait and see approach. I have taken to heart the advice to change my behaviour, which hopefully will change his in time. We will get the results of the assessment week very soon and that may well be the turning point.

get him registered on apprenticeships.org.uk, this way he will get to know about the appretniceships and what's out there but he doesn't have to apply until he's ready but at least he's seeing what the alternatives are.

Most companies these days advertise apprenticeships on their own websites so you do need to do alot of surfing the net to find them. Does he know what he would like to get into in the future?

Great post MathsAnxiety

Re teenagers and in particular mathanxiety's response.
We have an 18 yo son who is repeating his final year as didn't do well in his final exams. We backed off and left it to him and he asked if he could repeat. We agreed and he found a different college-type school to repeat in. All was well initally, but in the last month all of last year's behaviour has re-surfaced (probably had never gone away - but we're always hopeful). Basically he's mixing with guys like himself he left his facebook page open which I read yesterday and was profoundly depressed on reading it. He is taking drugs and alcohol, he's writing to his 'friends' to ask what happened as he can't remember, One of them told him he kept wanting to walking in the middle of the dual carriageway but they pulled him back. He's quite aggressive the day after he's been out, though generally is laid back and easy going. DH and I are so concerned, we've steered two daughters thru' these years, but really they were very easy years in comparison, we don't know what to do with our son. We've fallen back to doing things for him, like mathanxiety suggests we leave to him. We've been giving him a daily allowance for bus fares and lunches, but now think he has been holding on to the money to pay for his drugs.
Really are we looking at addiction? If so, should we be looking at treatment?
I don't want to to rush to the wrong conclusion but I also do not want to be in denial if there is a real issue of addiction to be addressed? Anything can happen to him when as he writes he's off his face.
Would appreciate response from those who have been there and can offer some guidance/hope