Teenager with chaotic sleep

[WorriedAboutNightOwl]

I've name changed, because DS knows my MN name.

DS is 17, in his final year at school (Scotland) and has always been a night owl. However his sleeping patterns have been chaotic for the last year or maybe longer. We all go to bed about 11pm, but DS sits in his chair in his room reading till all hours. Sometimes he doesn't go to sleep till 3 or 4am. Then he struggles to get up for school, doesn't have time to sit down for breakfast (breakfast is often a cereal bar eaten on the bus) When he gets home from school he's exhausted and usually sleeps from 4-6pm (I sometimes keep poking him awake, sometimes leave him.) He wakes up for dinner and starts his homework at some point in the evening. He can be doing homework till quite late, though he takes breaks to watch You tube clips etc, which prolongs the whole homework thing. It's hard to tell how much of his time is homework and how much is mucking about on the computer. He's often still doing his homework when DH and I are heading to bed.

He has a "catch-up" on sleep on Sat morning when he sleeps till lunchtime, and sometimes other day time naps over the weekend.

The school has expressed concern about him being tired in class, and he's under-achieving academically. He does no sport or anything to keep fit, because by the time he's at his most awake it's dark and the nearest fitness centre / swimming pool etc is closing.

He knows that the school, DH and I are all worried, and he doesn't like under-achieving academically, but doesn't see a need to change. Two nights ago he fell asleep reading in his chair and didn't go to bed at all - slept the whole night, fully dressed, in his chair.

How can we make him realise that he's mucking up his life by not sorting out his sleep patterns?

Good move

Teenagers don't actually need too many choices (said with bitter experience)

I feel ill. DS told me yesterday morning that he had two pieces of homework for today; an essay which he'd already started, and a worksheet which he'd already started.

He came home from school yesterday and I told him we (self, DS, DD) were going swimming that evening. He said he couldn't take any time off doing his homework. I said he could do 2 hours before swimming, get a proper break to clear his head by swimming, and do 2 hours after. I thought 4 hours homework was more than enough.

Half an hour after he got home I checked - he'd set out his homework and fallen asleep next to it. I woke him. Half an hour later I checked again - he was fast asleep again. He then said he'd make up the time he'd spent asleep by not going swimming. The compromise was that we'd spend no more than 30 mins in the pool. So, he did some homework till we set off at 6.30, we went swimming, had dinner as soon as we got home and then DS sat down to his homework, at 8pm.

I was tired and went to bed at 10.20pm; DS was still doing his homework.
This morning he's confessed that he sat up "doing homework" till 5am. He'd discovered another piece of homework which he'd forgotten about. He's had just over 2 hours sleep. He looks awful and is shaky. I've agreed he can miss the school bus and I'll drive him in, just so that he can at least eat a proper breakfast.

He can't possibly have needed 7 hours to do that amount of homework. He can't possibly cope with a full schoolday on 2 hours sleep.

Help!!

Get him to the doctor !

This isn't normal. There is something physical, or more likely something mental/emotional that is affecting him.

He is going to make himself very ill indeed.

This isn't right.
It's way beyond an unusual sleep pattern.
Please get him to the Dr and let us know what they say.

Thank you all. He's seeing the doctor next week. DH is home tonight after being away all week so we'll both speak to him (again!) SecondComing, I assume he was dozing some of the time till 5am, he can't possibly have been fully awake and doing homework all that time!

I had a sensible conversation with him while driving him to school. He's been under-achieving academically, but I've been assuming that if he could sort the sleep out, so that he's going into school fully alert, the under-achieving would sort itself out. But he said that he thought the under-achieving could be solved by attempting bizarre amounts of "homework" and if that means going without sleep, so be it.

I asked him if he might be depressed and he said, how would he know if he was? He said he was unhappy about school (I knew that) but didn't think he was depressed.

Am I right in thinking that the under-achieving is less important than the sleep, because he could make himself really ill (physically and mentally) if he doesn't start sleeping properly, but the worst that can happen with the under-achieving is that he has to spend a year re-sitting his exams?

Sort the sleeping out first

You need to know the reason for that

What year is he in ?

Sorry, he is 17, so first yr of A levels ?

Has he really got so much exam pressure atm ? Doing this much "homework" is crazy...if he is underachieving he is doing something wrong if it's taking so long and he is still not keeping up

We're in Scotland, so he's in his final year at school. He hopes to go to University next year. Ideally, he'd have done well in his exams last year, and just need to top-up a bit this year, but in fact he seriously under-performed (the sleep was an issue last year, too, though that wasn't the only problem) and so nothing short of excellent marks this year will get him into Uni. Instead of applying to Uni with a clutch of good exam results, he'll be applying in the next couple of months with poor results and a letter from the school saying he was capable of much better and should do really well this year. But the school won't give him that letter unless they think he is going to do well.

So huge pressure, right now, to prove that last year's results were an aberation, and he is in fact capable of excellence. Except that I don't think he can manage it until he starts sleeping at night and staying awake during the day.

Yes

Nothing more to say

Good luck x

Having loads of problems with my dd who is in gcse year

Not with sleeping, simply with "can't be bothered to study" "prefers social life above all else"

et fucking cetera

My daughter has been like this all summer after finishing her A Levels. On the computer all night until about 5.00 or 6.00 am, then sleeping until about 4 or 5 pm. Attempts to wake her would fail as she'd be like a zombie & refuse to get up. However now she's at uni and seems to be making it to her lectures (mostly). She said herself that her body clock is all messed up and she needs to adjust. If it had been term time we'd have confiscated the router at night!

Could your DS be unhappy at school? Reading all night is like escaping into a fantasy world because he's unhappy about something in the real world maybe. Will he talk about how he feels? (I know boys don't generally like the dreaded 'feelings' word!)

I'm sure he will grow out of it eventually, but it's very worrying and frustrating while it lasts. Could you threaten to stop his allowance or other privileges if he won't go to bed at a proper time? You'll know of course when he's been awake all night if he's dopey the next day.

I know he's unhappy at school, Coping Well; if he'd done better last year, he should have had a really interesting timetable this year, which would have included OU modules (the YASS scheme). Instead he's resitting a subject he didn't enjoy first time round, and doing another subject he's not particularly interested in, just to try to increase his number of passes. He's also doing three subjects he is interested in.

The idea in Scotland is that 5th year is the tough year, and sixth year (final year) is about fine-tuning and transition towards University, with lots of free periods and independent study, such as YASS.

He's quite open about how he's feeling. He acknowledges that if he'd taken our advice last year (his teachers were giving him the same advice) he'd have done much better, but somehow, frustratingly, that's not resulting in him taking our advice now. (Our advice being; go to bed at a reasonable time; get up in time to eat breakfast before school; make a study plan; break down your revision into manageable chunks, so you don't get overwhelmed; take breaks when you get completely away from schoolwork, preferably involving fresh air and exercise.)

Could you come and have a word with my dd too, she isn't listening to us

Perhaps we could do a "world's strictest parents" scenario, where we swap teenagers for a couple of weeks and see if they will listen to anyone else ?

Saw the doctor yesterday. He was excellent. DS said that he was trying to catch up at school and wasn't worried about the impact on his health. Doctor challenged him to find anything in any of the hundreds of available study guides which recommended sitting up half the night "studying" and then being tired at school all day. He pointed out that regardless of the impact on his health, if he wants to catch up he has to do it in an effective way. And sleeping at night and being alert during the day is the best way.

If I catch DS sleeping during the day, I have to wake him up.

He has given DS a print out about good sleep habits. We have to keep a diary and if there's still a problem in a months time, he will prescribe low dose sleeping tablets.

It was clear to the Dr that DS is stressed, so he also gave DS a check list of symptoms of depression, which indicate DS isn't depressed (I didn't think he was.)

Very impressed with doctor. Will DS take him seriously, though?

Glad you got this sorted out OP. As I read through this thread I just thought to myself 'cut out the naps!' sure enough that's what GP recommended as well.

I don't believe you can force anyone to sleep, lights out or no. You have to make them tired first and if they're not, they won't sleep. Very relieved he didn't go down the depression diagnosis route.

There's also something to be said for daylight - open the curtains first thing so he adjusts to this as he's getting up.