How much freedom/independence do your 13 year olds have

[pootlebug]

My step son is 13 and will turn 14 in September. He spends some weekends with us, and the rest of the time with his mother. We live 2 hours train journey away.

Recently we broached the subject of him travelling down by train himself (currently he is accompanied all the way), with his Mum dropping him off on the platform, one train with no changes, and his Dad meeting him on the platform at the other end. His Mum has said that in her opinion this is totally unsuitable.

There has been disagreement for some time about how much independence he gets. We have always stuck with the fact that it is his Dad's decision at our place, and his Mum's decision at her place. Nonetheless, she has complained several times about us letting him do things she didn't believe to be appropriate, such as:

• From the age of 10-and-a-half we used to let him go round to the local shops (5 mins walk, one road to cross but with zebra crossing). Apparently he was too young to do this.
• On holiday when nearly 11 we let him climb a hill (up public footpaths) behind the rented cottage on his own...20 minutes round trip and he knew the way and took a phone. Also inappropriate, apparently.
• A few months ago he came down here with a friend for a week and we let them go out in the daytimes together on public transport. She didn't complain to us but I know from talking to the parents of his friend that she wasn't happy with this at all either.

As far as I can tell, the only independence he gets at home is walking to the corner shop, or her driving him to the out-of-town shopping centre where he can meet up with friends/go to the cinema, then she drives him home again. He's never taken public transport on his own, for instance, except when with us.

I know we had a lot more independence than this at his age. Have things changed that much and are we completely out of touch? - Our other two children are 3 and 1, and I don't know many other parents of teenagers.

We can continue to give him some independence when with us, but in the end most of his time is spent away from here. I appreciate that someone may just tell me to butt out and let her parent him how she wishes. I guess my concerns are around the fact that I worry that he will suffer socially if he is not allowed out with his friends. And from a more selfish point of view, at the moment it is my Dad or my partner who has to do long round trips to accompany him on the train.....and I'd like to know that there was an end in sight to that for their sakes too. Or am I just being unreasonable? Are most young teens these days not given much independence?

niceguy2 - as you surmise, one of the problems is that it wouldn't change the level of inconvenience to her.

Most of the time, my Dad brings him. He offered to do this when we first discussed moving further away, as he is retired and has free unlimited rail travel and can bring an under-16 with him for £1 due to lots of years working for the railways, and they get on pretty well. We are extremely grateful for his help. DH meets them at the mainline station and brings him to our place from there. The occasions my Dad can't make it, DH does 2 round trips to pick him up, but this involves either taking half a day off work on the Friday, which isn't always feasible, or doing the journey considerably later.

Before we moved DH did all the pick ups and drop offs (1 to 1.5 hours in the car each way) as ex-W believed that because he had chosen to leave, he should put in all the effort. Personally I believe it takes two people to end a marriage, and two people to be responsible for ensuring a child has contact with both parents, but she really does not.

I think ex-W is pissed off at my Dad for making her ex-H's life too easy by doing the fetching....she is narked that it doesn't put her ex-H out enough. So therefore is quite happy to keep putting my Dad out. She is also cross that instead of just waiting at home for him to be picked up she now has to do a 10-15 minute trip each way to the station. We continued to get complaints about the unfairness of this and the associated £1 parking charge for the first 2 years after moving here She could of course avoid the parking charge if she dropped him at the entrance, but apparently it is necessary to do an emotional farewell and reunion on platform 3....

She is being ridiculous but I dunno how anybody manages to sort these differences out. Have you asked her at what age she thinks it would be ok for him to make the journey by himself?
My 11yo went by himself on train for first time, about 2 months ago [proud emoticon].

Ok, so would I be right in saying them that the real problem is a bitter ex rather than any genuine concerns over his safety?

The problem is that by your DH (understandably) doing the transporting that you've very little leverage really.

Could you as ragged suggests, ask what age she felt it was appropriate? Then if she says 14 then its not too long to wait. If she says 16 then obv she's taking the piss.

Is he the only child? Is there a regular routine established? eg. every other weekend? Because if there is, one thing to bear in mind is that she will almost certainly have plans. Us resident parents love our "alone" time. So if you for whatever reason couldn't drive and DH's dad couldn't do the train journey then yes obviously DSS can't come to see dad but at the same time mum can't go out either. In short its inconvenient for her too. The best time to suddenly have an ill grandad and a dodgy car would be when you know she has a party or something to go to and has planned not to have DSS around.

What about friends? Can he bring a mate a few times initially just to satisfy mum that he's not all alone?

But I do also feel that DSS has to also speak up. Her position is going to be much weaker if DSS is also very vocal & insistent that he's no longer a child and is perfectly able to do this journey alone.

Ultimately you can't force mum to let go if she's unwilling to short of applying to court for a specific issue order. Which frankly would be bizarre given the issue. Better in my opinion to play the long game and chip away every excuse she has and get DSS to do the same on the other side.

As others have said 'when in Rome' but how far does your Rome stretch?

On the return journey could you agree train times with EX-W then at the appointed hour put DSS on the train then phone EX-W to tell her he is on the train? Make sure DSS has a few pounds in his pocket, mobile phone etc in case there are problems (Or Ex-W decides to be awkward about getting to the station to pick her son up).

My DS (12) made his first unaccompanied inter-city trip a few weeks ago. He survived perfectly well!

Thank you everyone for your advice. The arguments against from his Mum are:

• He would not be accompanied the way he would be on a flight (actually he wouldn't be accompanied for most airlines....I checked and nearly all airlines expect a 14 year old to cope by themselves)
• He hasn't enough experience travelling on public transport alone so wouldn't know what to do if something went wrong. Not sure what exactly would go wrong.....train drivers rarely get lost and end up in Inverness by mistake

To be fair, he doesn't have that much experience of being on public transport without an adult present - as the only times he ever has done has been when he is staying with us. So the plan is:

• Whoever travels with him will sit in the next carriage so he can get used to no-one being there
• We'll make sure that every time he is here, he does some journeys by himself. Not ideal when his time with his Dad is pretty limited, but we can work it by the two of them taking alternative routes home or out.

As a suggestion, if you do the travelling together but in separate carriages how about not telling him? That way he is (so far as he is concerned) travelling alone but if there is a sudden diversion to Inverness then he will have a short period of thinking 'hell, what do i do?'. If he then does the usual sensible things of phoning people then all is well. If he starts running up the carriages crying 'we're doomed' (Inverness can be like that) then the accompanying adult can appear. Otherwise he need never know.

I suggest the above as the only way to practice travelling alone is by travelling alone.

Good luck, it sounds like you are taking a very sensible and conciliatory approach.