DD won't go to sleep or stay away from home - help

[WellyTop]

Hi all,

Wonder if we could get your advice on this. We have two DD's - one 6, one 10 (nearly 11). For the past few months, the older one has been a nightmare at bedtime, coming in 6 or 7 times a night, sometimes begging at the door to sleep in our bed saying she's frightened - the other night she was physically trembling so we sat with her and talked about nice things to reassure her and she was okay but then moments later started begging to come in with us. She eventually went to sleep but I think it was only when her body said enough is enough and wouldn't let her eyes stay open any longer.

There have also been several times in the last few months where she has been at a sleepover, and had to be dropped off/collected just before bedtime. She says she is coming home because her friends are being nasty to her, but it's pretty obvious she's just saying that because she wants to come home.

Both DD's are currently with their dad (I'm their step-dad) and the older one has just been on the phone again, in tears, begging to come home (she was only picked up this afternoon). We are pretty sure there is nothing untoward going on - the younger one is fine and the older one is bad even when she's at home too. Her dad is obviously getting upset with the situation too - to him it's like she doesn't want to see him (which she does).

I had a sit down with her yesterday while her mum was at work and she basically broke down to me, saying that she hates being away from her mum (after telling us the night before that she had no idea why she was acting like this - so it's possible she was just making the reason up). She's got a school trip coming up that she doesn't want to go on, because she says she's worried that they won't let her call home very often. She's also got a week with her dad in the summer and she is adamant that she doesn't want to go, as she says she will miss us too much. It's not as though she is away from her mum either - we are always here, and it's maybe 2 or 3 nights a month that we are not with the girls so I don't think we could be with them any more than we are now. It's almost like it's attention seeking, and it possibly is, but I don't want to class it as just that and tell her to stop being so unreasonable, as it seems really acute and I want to make sure there's nothing else we can do first.

She's a bright girl, always does well at school, she doesn't have a temper, and she always does as she's told (well, after asking about 3 times!). When we're out people comment on how good they both are so aside from what I've mentioned above, there are no other behavioural issues at all.

We are at a complete loss to know what to do - I don't want to send her to a counsellor as she is very bright and will probably think we think she's nuts - which we know she isn't - but at the same time this can't continue and we want to nip it in the bud before it starts becoming a real problem. It already is a real problem to a degree - I have no doubt that her recent performance at sleepovers has alienated her from the friends she was sleeping over with, and at this rate, she's not going to have any left at all.

Have any of you had anything similar, or do you have any suggestions?

Thanks in advance.

No experience, sorry. Can you host sleepovers with girls she likes? I think she will have to go on the school trip, I know that my DDs schools have said they are compulsory.
Not much help am I? Sorry.

oh poor girl. :(

Can you think of anything, however small, that may have triggered this? Perhaps she is getting bullied or is worried about something. Or it could be hormonal changes perhaps.

Having sleepovers at home is a good idea. As for her dad, it must be awful for him, but could you change access arrangements so that visits are officially only in the daytime? Drop her off really early and allow her to come back later than her usual bedtime so she still gets a decent amount of time with dad but there's no pressure to stay away overnight, and dad won't be upset by DD changing her mind.

You say she does well at school but does she enjoy it?

I don't think her behaviour is too unusual. I remember as a child really looking forward to going to stay with my cousins but then feeling very homesick at bedtime. A friend's dd who is a similar age to yours had to be collected from guide camp one night recently as she was so upset.

I think the suggestion to collect her from her dads at bedtime is good. Hopefully he will be reasonable & co-operate.

With sleepovers, maybe send her but tell her you will collect her before bedtime (you can make an excuse to save face such as an early start the next day) but if she changes her mind she can stay on? That way she is not worrying about it all evening & may relax more.

Just had another thought - has there been a bereavement in the family, is her parents split a recent one or had she witnessed a friend experiencing a bereavement or family break-up?

These can often trigger separation anxiety. I remember my sister getting very anxious about being apart from my mother for a while after her schoolfriend's parents separated.

Thanks for the replies. We've been racking our brains trying to think of anything that might have triggered this behaviour but we simply can't - and nor, it appears, can DD either (unless she's just not telling us).

She does love school - she's never not keen to go so I don't think she's getting bullied. She's off to secondary in the Autumn so that will be playing on her mind a bit no doubt, but this doesn't seem to have tied in with when this started happening either so don't think that is the cause.

We're a bit apprehensive of moving all the sleepovers to ours because firstly she has some here already from time to time, and we think that if she is doing all of this as an act for whatever reason, it might make it worse as the less she stays away, the worse this could potentially become when she does have to stay away. We could be wrong with that but we don't want her thinking she can call all the shots - it's a difficult balance to strike as we don't want to be harsh on her if there is something truly the matter.

We're going to sit down with her dad in the next few days - without DD's there - to chat about this and sort it out as DD's dad's sister (now 40-ish) was a bit like this and we don't want to see her ending up with the same problems as his sister has now.

So we need to nip it in the bud before DD either realises she can get what she wants by doing this, or has a real problem.

Any other thoughts would be appreciated - thanks again for your replies so far.

Thanks Decorhate - my reply crossed with yours - there hasn't been a bereavement in the family and her parents split happened years ago. I married her mum a few months ago but she was fully involved with the wedding and everything - she even got up to do a speech about us and how we all met (her choice!).

I don't think any of her friends' parents have separated either - that's the sort of news that would go around like wildfire here - but I can see where you're coming from.

Thanks for the suggestions re collecting her from her dad's at bedtime and saying we'll pick her up from sleepovers before bed, but then let her stay on if she wants to - all worth trying to see if we can get this sorted.

We'll give anything a go if it will make her feel less anxious - we want her to look forward to going on school trips and sleepovers and stuff - to a certain degree those are the things that are what being a kid is all about so we'd hate for her to miss out.

Thanks again.

You say she doesn't want to go on the school trip because she's 'worried they won't let her call home often', and she doesn't want to stay with her dad 'because she'll miss her mum'. To me that sounds like she is actually worrying about being worried, if that makes any sense. It's a cycle - she thinks about going on the school trip, thinks 'but maybe they won't let me phone if I want to, I'll feel awful if that happens, oh no, now I feel bad because it'll all be dreadful and I don't want to go'. I'm a bit like this and it has taken me years to recognise and be able to verbalise it - I certainly couldn't have explained it when I was your DD's age, I was just constantly anxious and scared.

It is a vicious cycle that is extremely hard to break. If this is what is going on with your DD, it might help her to recognise that it is a cycle, a thought pattern that has little basis in reality, and that it is ok to be worried, but that there are useful worries that can be addressed by doing something ('if I go on the school trip, I might feel homesick - but my mum and dad have told the teachers this might happen so they will let me phone home if I need to, so I'll be ok') and unhelpful worries that only make you feel more awful ('if I go on the school trip, I might feel homesick, and they might not let me phone home so I'll feel worse, and everyone will notice I feel bad and they'll think I'm weird). You say she's a smart child, so the rational aspect of trying consciously to think in the former way, rather than the latter, might appeal to her.

Good luck. You, her mum and her father all sound really caring and sensible, which I'm sure will be extermely valuable in helping her.

Thanks all.

An update - in the last few days it has got worse, although I think we have got to the bottom of the reason she doesn't want to stay away from home - not being able to sleep.

Saturday, Sunday and Monday nights she wouldn't go to sleep at all, completely freaking out at bedtime, so I sat there holding her hand while she listened to the radio for an hour or so until she was asleep.

Unfortunately I think this may have made it slightly worse because it appears that she now expects it. We've been really firm with her since, but it has reached the stage now that she is terrified of NOT falling asleep - she really wants to fall asleep, but just can't. The last two nights she has read literally until she's fallen asleep a few hours later, but it's far later than she should be going to sleep (at least 1am having been put into bed at 9pm).

The music seemed to help her but she was concentrating too much on the words when the talking came on the radio - so I've got some sleep music to try out tonight to see if that helps her. Hopefully it will - we shall see - I will keep you posted.

Thanks again for your advice - any more based on what appears to be the problem now would be greatly appreciated! We just want the poor thing to be able to get a good night's sleep as she so desperately wants one.

The problem with a sleep disorder is that it's such a hard habit to break. It may be that this was the problem when she went to a sleepover and couldn't get to sleep. Now she has anxiety over it and it's a viscious circle.
My 9 year old suffers intermittently from a similar thing and has had to be picked up from sleepovers before. She also has separation anxiety and sometimes this causes panic attacks.

She is also due to go on her first week long school trip and I'm not sure how she will cope. All we do is keep taking her back to bed, without making a fuss, and leaving her to settle. This can take hours and she is often still awake at midnight. It is exhausting.

We know what has caused the problem although that doesn't make it any easier to deal with. I have spoken to a childrens councillor about it and there advice was- it's a normal reaction to stress- however small an incident may have caused it and to carry on as normal, without making a big deal out of it. Always reassuring the child but not encouraging the behaviour.

I would stop all sleeping over at others houses, and if you can get her dad to agree to this for a while it will take the pressure away, and then go back to basics at bedtimes at home, like you would with a baby, by setting a routine, relaxing bath, supper, set bedtime, lots of cuddles and letting her know that there's no pressure to go to sleep, just to read or listen to music as you are doing until she falls asleep.

Sorry- no quick fixes, and only my advice for it's worth. We still have bad nights with DD.

There is a possibility that if the sleep problem gets really bad and is affecting her day to day you could get some help from a doctor. They can prescribe things to help make her drowsy but I think that would be a last resort.

Can you try something like bedtime herb teas or a herbal sleeping remedy (I think they should be OK for a child her age). I don't actually believe they work to any significant degree, but the placebo effect can be very powerful - if she's not sleeping because she's worried about not sleeping, giving her something that says on the packet it will help her sleep may give her worried brain 'permission' to relax and switch itself off.

And if that doesn't work, it might be time to see the GP about giving her something with actuall medical effects to help her sleep for a few nights to break the cycle.

I know a few people who swear by 'aconite' as a homeopathic remedy for sleep and it can also be used for children.

Aconite?? I thought that was a poison. Also known as deadly monkshood.

Re my previous post where I suggested speaking to your doctor- we were actually given anti-histamines which have a well known side affect of making you drowsy (ie do not drive, do not operate machinery etc)

It helped to break the habit, short term.

It doesn't solve the problem entirely, you may never get to the bottom of why it started, but what it does do is give you and her some much needed rest and therefore the ability to deal with it calmly when it does happen.

But I really would check with your doctor first to make sure it is safe for her to take and has no undesirable side affects.

mumblechum - I presume aconite would be entirely safe as a homeopathic remedy as it would be diluted a million times or so - ie there wouldn't actually be more than one molecule (if that) in the entire sugar pill. See what I said above about placebo effects...

For night time radio listening, try Classic FM, the music is enough to distract the mind from thinking and because there are no lyrics, then you can't concentrate on them.
We've used it on my 8 year old since birth and it seems to do the trick

Lavender oil on pillow? Or there is a pillow spray in boots that also has relaxing stuff in it. How about a hypnosis cd?
Sorry I don't have any experience with children but these have worked for me, and are portable. They had a pillow somewhere (sorry) in last few weeks which had tiny speakers in fir mp3, more comfy than headphones?

i knew a child who at about 11 / 12 years old suddenly had issues with regards to sleeping (not worried about being away from mum)

his mum gave him rescue remedy and it really helped... it lasted 6 / 9 months or so, but he is 19 now and has been fine since

I have just been through something similar with my DD13
just over a year ago she started to refuse to go over night to her stepfamily. Up until then she had been going once a week (sometimes twice) since she was 1. She is very close to her half sister and stepmum so the sudden change was a surprise to us all- It is a very chaotic household and very different from ours plus they had just moved into the country. She also refused to go to my mothers for a sleep over - She became very anxious and had always had trouble sleeping even at home. She would start worrying about the Friday night sleepover on Monday and by Fri would be in hysterics

• as a single parent it was important for me for her to be happy to sleepover at these places so I could have some time for myself. She said she wasn't worried about being away from me and that she would be happier to be left in the house alone than to have to sleep over anywhere!-

I tried everything
rescue remedy
lavender
bribery
Two good books were
moving bedrooms around What to Do When You Dread Your Bed: A Kid's Guide to Overcoming Problems with Sleep (What to Do Guides for Kids)
Dawn Huebner
and "Overcoming Your Child's Fears and Worries" by Cathy Creswell and Lucy Willetts both books are aimed at children around the same age

I got her some cbt counselling - referred by GP which helped tackle her anxieties which were leading to her sleep problems
the counsellor suggested the same as Downnotout and she had a period of 2 months of not going anywhere so we could get her everyday sleeping sorted. We used the techniques in the two books and her sleeping is fine now, it is the exceptional night when she cant sleep or comes into me which is totally normal.

She still doesnt want to sleep over with her step family and hasn't, although she sees them during the day twice a week and her half sister comes to us as usual once a week. She will stay happily at my mums now and as a compromise we have an arrangement that she only goes everyother weekend and if I want to go out inbetween I'll get her step sister (19) to babysit in our house. It still isn't really over as she will not accept invites to sleepover at her friends and turned down a chance to go to Italy with the school next year. Although she is making noises that she'd be open to the idea now. She is back to being the happy child she was before this started

Apparently it is very common for children from divorced parents to go through this phase - (I wonder if it is a subconsious attempt to control their own lives coupled with puberty) I am confident that my DD will grow out of it herself - You'd be surprised how many children from 'unbroken' families will not go on sleepovers - it just doesn't manifest itself as a major problem as they don't usually have to do it. I have lots of friends who DD's havn't spent one night away from home!

It was tough on her step family as it was hard for them not to take it personally that she didn't want to sleepover. It took a lot of communication between all of us

good luck I hope our story helped