massive fight with DS;(

[MedusaIsHavingABadHairDay]

Background. DS1 (17) lots of issues in the past.. he was frankly vile aged 12-16 , stealing from us, massive tempers, smashing place up, but has been more reasonable over the last year.. in 6th form and has a part time job tho deopendent on me to pay his phone, take him to work.

He has always been massively selfish with no respect for anyone's feelings or property.. he has 'borrowed' his brothers Wii (left it at a mates) takes his clothes, and and took his headphones.. DS2 has autism and Learning diffs and needs them if we go out.

Today sked for the headphones as we needed to go out. DS1 lying in bed refused to say where they were, or where he had left them. DH got cross and asked him to find them.. cue massive swearing. Called DH a cunt, twat etc etc.

DH has always kept is temper but today he lost it.. had had enough of being treated like that and went for DS1:( Yanked him off his bed and tried to chuck him in the garden. Let go and came back thro with son screaming every bit of abuse imaginable.

Don't get me wrong we KNOW DH shouldn't have lost him temper, but we bend over backwards for DS1..far more than we have ever tolerated from the other children :(

DS1 has stomped off out texting to say he was 'done' with us because we are the most appalling parents ever. We really aren't... it the 'last straw' blow out from years of sheer lack of respect.

I just don't know what to do now. DS1 not answering phone, no idea if he'll come home:( or where he will go.
Feel so sick and sad.

No idea what to say to you.

Can you buy some more headphones? Your ds has the power at the moment as he has something you want, if you buy more, no issue as far as that is concerned.

When is he 18?
He will be fine, at a friend's house or hanging around with friends grumbling about his parents to a receptive audience.
You know that bending over backwards for him might well be a large part of the problems you are now facing? He is also abusing his younger brother's basic needs, the headphones being the example you gave that really got to me.
He's done with you? Perhaps you should bite the bullet, she how he manages without you for a while and use the time to come up with a plan of action and a better way forwards.
Selfish people usually manage to survive well, so stop phoning him and trying to find out where he is. Let him come home because he needs to.

First, I would leave him be - he will come back when he is cold and hungry.

Then, I would lock up everything that belongs to Ds2, and anything else you want to keep safe.

Stop providing transport and phone for DS1.

You have to take the long view here - at the moment there are no boundaries - he knows there are no consequences for his behaviour.

Just a thought - is he jealous of DS2 (inasmuch as he might think that Ds2 gets more attention?) I am NOT saying that is the case - but there may be unresolved issues there, and it may be that you have overcompensated in the past, giving DS1 a sense of entitlement.

Maybe, when he does come back, and things are calm, it might be time for a heart to heart talk?

He'll be fine. Don't ring him anymore - let him come back when he's ready and make sure he apologises - do not apologise or let FH apologise. I don't have any problem with what your DH did. It's just a shame he didn't shut him out in the garden to cool off.

Hopefully as he's been a lot better this year he will realise he's behaved badly.

Stop paying for his phone and only take him to and from work if there isn't any other possible way for him to get there walk/bus/cycle. Don't ferry him around to other things.

Is he home yet?
Sweetheart i have three teenage sons, and they are hell. But seriously this is sickening, your ds2 two is autistic and he treats his little brother like this. Sure me and my sons fight but this is awful.
I'm not sure if this is the problem or not but...
maybe he's a bit jelous of his brother. i guess your ds2 is getting more attention than himand when he turned 12 he noticed this and is just bad tempered about not getting enough attention. But this behaviour is terrible and awfully selish and immature. He is only young and still learning but this is just beyond it... He wants a chase and wants you to follow himand worry and feel guilty and sorry. Don't!

He came home(having texted us that he was done with us and that we were the world's worst parents) Got himself some food and sloped off into his room (downstairs btw..hence him nearly being chucked in the garden!). Stayed there for an hour (unusual) then sloped back out. I wonder if he was expecting DH or myself to come and apologise to him, or whether he simply didn't have anywhere else to hang out .. the latter I suspect.
We simply carried on our evening as normal; spoke politely to him if he happened to be there, made no effort to approach him otherwise.

I actually don't think he is jealous of DS2..he is fond of him and is very much aware that his life is better than DS2s will ever be as an adult, but he has always has a 'hard done by' attitude. He has two sisters (4 teens in our house... ) one either side, age wise, who have worked hard at school, are doing well etc, while he has always done the absolute minimum. He thinks it's 'unfair' that eldest DD has just gone to uni to study medicine and will one day have a good job.. he takes no personal responsibility for the fact he's never done any work:( and that is his attitude towards everything.. :(

He is VERY immature, and very selfish and I just don't know how to get thro to him; he is impossible to have a rational conversation with at all, hence not sitting him down for a chat now.. it would be pointless. I'm hanging onto the hope that he will eventually mature a bit:(

I feel awful that I lost MY temper with him, because I try to be the reasonable one, if you kwim. DH has never as much as tapped our children on the hand let alone gone for him, so he feels bad at himself.. :(

Thankyou for your replies.. it's so hard to know what to do to help him become a decent adult!

Sounds like you are reacting sensibly to provocation, pleasant and refusing to engage at a deeper level. He hasn't got a plan, hasn't got anywhere else he can be, he's stuffed basically.
Don't pander to him, if he wants favours he needs to be a civil and helpful family member.
And don't you or your DH dare feel guilty for getting wound up by an expert. All teens have it in them to be a PITA, and most exercise that ability on a regular basis.

I think you are both doing really well. His behaviour isn't great - but it could be a lot worse.

I would tell him that if he wants to live at home & have all the creature comforts then has to buck up his attitude, not touch anything belonging to anyone else & generally get along with everyone & if he can't do that, then he needs to move out.

From now on, don't ferry him around (unless it's for work & it's the only way he can get there) and don't put credit on his phone until he's replaced all the 'missing' stuff'

I wouldn't buy/do anything for him until he respects everyone else (and their 'stuff').

Stand your ground. Your DS is behaving like a toddler and you have done the right thing doing the polite distance thing with him this evening. A young man of his age does need to come to an understanding of what his responsibilities are and how his behaviour and choices impacts on those around him. He is not a child any more but when he behaves like one he needs to be reminded that his actions have consequences - and I think you have started to do this effectively this evening. Teenagers will say the most horrid things when they feel their backs are against the wall but be firm and eventually you will come out the other side. :)

Medusa hugs to you. I have one that can be just like you've described and in fact we had an 'incident' last night which has really upset me.
He is the same age, 17 going on 27 and of course he knows it all. Slightly different situation in that we live abroad and he returned to the UK for his A levels. He put a lot of pressure on me for him to go to the best (and of course most expensive) college and (stupidly?) I gave in. Think I felt guilty that I would be so far away and he knew a few people there so gave in. He knew how hard it was going to be for me to support him through it and the deal was, that after his A levels he would take a gap year and could stay in our (UK) house rent free but he had to get a job for a year and save at least half of his income towards Uni the next year.

Of course due to all the changes in tuition fees he is no longer taking a gap year and is intending to go to Uni next September and it appears that he expects me to support him financially which I just can't do. I have 3 other DC to think of and have always made it clear I simply cannot fund him through Uni. I have suggested he perhaps get a saturday job and then a summer job to save a little money and I'm met with scorn. His (rich) friends don't have to do that.

Last night he was horrible (he is out on a visit). He called me all sorts of names, slammed doors, stamped his foot etc and acted like a two year old. It worries me that he has chosen a career that is very competitive and he will need to grow up an awful lot between now and next september if he wants to succeed. He is very intelligent as I'm sure your DS is so why oh why do they act like bloody babies?

I've hardly slept last night worrying about what to do. I cannot support him to the extent he wants. I have already had to re-mortgage last summer to help pay his fees and the credit card is going up and up. DH HATES his job and as wanted to leave for over a year now but we can't afford to return home due to DSs fees. Bloody kids.

Have you had any 'communication's with your tweenager yet since his outburst? Is this a regular thing?
Does he know what he wants to do? You say DD is going to Uni/has her career plan mapped out. Maybe he just doesn't know what he wants and is very frustrated?

If anyone knows how to tame/control a stroppy teenager please PM me

Hi no advice, just wanted to be supportive

I have a 15yo and a 17yo at home, and both have exams next month. We are finding that the 17yo in particular is very stressed, and is even more unreasonable than ever.

MOS - (hugs) your DS will get loans for his uni fees, just like mine will, and they will have to get part-time jobs to fund the rest. That's life! But please don't let him make you feel bad, times are changing, and they will have to adapt.
jgbmum x

It's horrible isn't it? The two most useful bits of advice I've ever had were these...

One, from a friend - angry teenagers are like hurricanes. You wish you could control them, but you can't. When they rage, you need to batton down the hatches, make sure you are protected, and wait for it to pass. It does.

The other, from the only useful parenting book I've ever come across (It's called "Get out of my life, but first take me and Kevin into town"! Can't remember the author) - I'm paraphrasing here - Teens behave badly to help themselves separate from you. They love you, they need you, they're scared they won't be able to do without you... So they act horrible to create distance between you and try out how it feels. My own observation is that, perhaps, the closer/better the relationship was originally between you & your teen, the harder they may feel they have to fight to separate from you.

Hang on in there! :)

I think teens and tantruming toddlers have a lot in common in behaviour. You end up upset and worried, analysing where you went wrong and thinking you are the problem.

You're not. He is. He is fighting against growing up. He wants independence but not responsibility.

Well, tough. :)
The two come together and he has to learn this otherwise he will be a foul man

Good on your DH and you. I suspect your DS needed to know that there are boundaries and he has breached them. Now maintain those boundaries!

It's far better to tell him what the boundaries are and what the penalty will be than have a scene but now is the right time to feel justified and enforce reasonable behaviour and reward good behaviour. Do NOT pander to him but do make sure he feels loved when he is being a civil member of the family