More advice needed, 'attitude' and rudeness

[perspective]

Hi all and thanks for previous advice. Some of you might remember I look after my sisters daughter quite a bit as she works abroad and is a single parent. Dn is 12.

We had a really difficult day at the weekend. I can't face going into details, but basically she started the day being rude over something really small, things escalated (e.g.when asked what she wanted for lunch, more rudeness, why was I bothering her etc). Eventually I asked her to please stop and that we expected a basic level of politeness and she shouted that she did not care, did not care about us, had friends who were there to care for / love her etc.

We were due to go out for ds birthday. She came, but refused to come in to the activity so I left her in the car for 2 hours. On the way home I asked her if she wanted to think about apologisng. She told me that she was not going to apologise as 'all teenagers behave this way'. I challened this and said it simply was not true to which she replied that I should expect more bejhaviour like this as she 'did not have a proper family'. I challenged this again and said I thought this was just an excuse and that plenty of people grew up in one parent homes. She stalked off. I told her I would let her mum know how she was behaving and she said she did not care as her mum could not stop her doing what she wanted either.

At the end of the day dh asked her once more to apologise and she calmly told him to stop asking her as if we asked her again she would start screaming and shouting.

I'm at a loss to know what to do. I have disabled her laptop. She has gone to stay with a friend (prearranged with her mum as I was going to be away at the same time as her). In normal circumstances I would have grounded her as well. Have written a note to my sister saying I feel this behaviour needs consequences but I feel all at sea. I've been a teenager (many moons ago) and I remember what it feels like to have everyone agaisnt you. But - I really do believe in basic levels of civility and politeness. If ds behaved like this he would have been grounded, no phone, no computer games etc.

Please - what do you think? Is it really unrealistice to expect basic politenesss? I have looked after her for about 4 1/2 years, usually between 8 and 12 days a month (this included overnights). I have (I hope) been clear that we are her family as well and love her and care what happens to her. What would you do?

I feel for her, I know you are doing your best but you aren't her Mum who she clearly misses and probably resents for leaving her while she works.

On one hand its good that she feels comfortable enough with you to show the 'real' her, ie the moods and rudeness. Thats usually saved only for parents!

But there is a case for 'your house your rules' and I feel it should be her Mum who speaks to her about this-while she is staying with you (which allows Mum to work and get money) she should think about her manners.

When you tackle the rudeness what do you actually say?

Thanks Nanny. Yes, I feel for her too. her life is sometimes quite unsetteled. Her mum is away for anything between 2 and 9 days at a stretch. I have on occasion pgoned her mum when behaviour like this has happened in the past, but I don't feel I could phone everytime it happens as it costs my sister a lot of money (she's abroad).

Regarding what I say to dn - I usually just ask her to please stop and remind her that we expect politeness and courtesy to each other in our home. Sometimes it works, sometimes I get the response that she doesn't care what we do in our house.

I have thought long and hard about my requests for her to apologise particularly after the advice that Custardo gave on my last thread. I generally try hard to ignore low level shouting and stropiness and walk away without arguing but it felt like she was spoiling for a fight that day. Possibly because it was ds birthday - possibly because she was without both parents for half term. Father - well that's another story - hence why I look after her while sis is away.

Don't know. I worry that I am about to loose control of her. She has started to say that she's not going to come here when she is 13 and will get her mum to arrange that she stays with friends.

Thanks for taking the time to reply - I'm going to check back later.

you need to talk to your sister as you are in a way a primary carer for DN and it's important that she knows that you and your sister stand together on things like this. don't let her start playing one of against the other. You also have to respect though that if she wants to spend sometime sleeping over at her friends then it's her choice. Chances are that her friends parents wouldn't allow her to over school nights anyway.

get your sister to talk to her school to see if anything has happened there, sounds to me as she has something on her mind but doesn't know who or how to talk about it, it could be something personal with her body changing etc

I work with teenagers and often find that if they aren't getting enough sleep then this results in attitude and behaviour problems. make sure she doesn't take her phone or laptop to bed with her. sounds obvious but sometimes we just overlook the simple answers.

"she shouted that she did not care, did not care about us, had friends who were there to care for / love her etc."
"She told me that she was not going to apologise as 'all teenagers behave this way'."

(have not read your previous thread)
Has she fallen in with some unsavoury crowd who 'love her' and who get away with dissing their parents?
She is only 12 y.o. She is trying it on, testing boundaries.
I would clamp down hard now because it can only get worse if you pander to her. Not all teenagers behave this way. I always stress to DC that life is give-and-take: you make my life nice, I'll make your life nice. You don't want to investgate the alternative ...

Thank you both. I don't have a problem with her staying with friends, but I think even the best of friends parents might baulk at 3 - 4 nights every week. I could stand my ground and not have her to stay but my sister really has no other childcare options, particularly during term time. I have attempted to get her father more involved (he lives abroad) but things are very difficult there. I think I would have a much better relationship with her if she did not stay here. I'm not her parent but trying to act like one. I can't be that auntie that she turns to who takes her for a coffee and tries to get her to talk because I'm also the one nagging about homework, make up and politeness.

Agree that I need to get her mum on side - problem is she has different expectations and believes different things are appropriate.

Thanks for replies.