How to teach responsibility to a reckless 13 year old- is it too late?!

[marriednotdead]

I have tried to keep this condensed for the sanity of all reading, sorry it's still quite long.

My DSS is 13.5, but can easily pass for 16/17. He can be charming, funny and a pleasure to be with.
However he takes no responsibility for his own actions and we are truly at a loss as to how to get it through.

He has been a handful since I first met him at 5. Until a couple of years ago he stayed with us every weekend/school holidays and spoke to my DH daily by phone. Over the years there have been behavioural issues (disruption/bullying/defiance) severe enough to warrant exclusions at primary school.

He never behaved that badly with us, but his mum always struggled to cope/discipline effectively and finally gave up 2 years ago- we got a call saying 'take him now'.
We involved mentors, had CAMHS check for ADHD (nope), and spent months fighting to get him a trial in a mainstream school following referral to a PRU. After 18 months of lies, stress, being excluded from school several times and a pregnancy scare with his 14yo gf, the last straw was him contracting a nasty STI and being referred to SS. He returned to his mother in April with promises of a fresh start. By this point we were both on the edge of sanity so tbh it was a sad but blessed relief.

Fast forward 12 weeks. Within a month of leaving us he was kicked out of the new school and back to the PRU. He'd been skipping school, swearing at staff etc. and they categorically will not have him back.

His mum threw him out after discovering he had emptied her bank account. He'd spent @£1500, mainly on trainers, clothes and mobiles. His reasoning was that she was being mean with her money, and that it was her fault for letting him know her PIN number. He'd also been smoking/selling dope and bought a moped at some point

So he's back with us.

We've muddled through the summer- SS refuse to take him into foster care 'as he has a stable family home'. The fact that the other 4 people in the house are at breaking point doesn't matter apparently
The relationship with his mum is so volatile that it has been agreed with all parties and his SW that he has no direct contact with her for now.
She has sought solace in the church, and has tried to get him involved. He has gone several times, but usually used it as an excuse to detour elsewhere when he was grounded. He has no genuine interest and laughs at her behind her back.

He's been back at the PRU for 3 weeks. We'd bought more clothes- uniform policy has been relaxed a bit says DSS. Got a call on Friday saying he has been told constantly about wearing wrong tops. Money wasted.
Got a letter last night saying no dinner money paid yet plus arrears from when he was with his mum. He has been leaving the house daily with £2.50 to pay for a £1.85 meal so DH has hit the roof. Excuse was 'they didn't ask me for the money'.
Confiscated his mobile and cut up SIM card.

Spoke to his mum this morning and he text her AFTER that so he has another phone hidden somewhere. Said he wanted to be baptised, we're guessing he's trying to get back into her good books so he can move in there again.

He left this morning wearing a coat I've never seen. When I asked where it was from, the story (involving his mum) didn't ring true. Sure enough, when DH asked her, she knows nothing of it.

DH has called SW and stated he can't cope any more and wants him out. I have battled through this with him and I can't disagree. Everyone in RL who has watched this unfold is amazed we have got this far without killing either him or ourselves

Having read back what I have written, I feel so sad. He seems determined to throw his life away and we are powerless to stop him.

Any advice will be gratefully received. I am going to work shortly so if I don't come back before this evening, I haven't dumped and run, nor am I a troll

Sorry I can't give you any advice, But just wanted to you to know that I think you are a great Step Mum and to give you my support,
Do you think he might think that nobody wants him, Just reasure him that you do want him and you and his Dad are there for him and want to help.

Actually it sounds like your doing a good job so far - don't have him go back to his mums, she sounds less able to provide a stable life with consequences.

Forget "getting through to him" - make him take responsibility by actually making him take it and shutting down the avenues where he can act out.

He cannot be trusted (like the foster children I've had) so you have to accept that caring for him is going to be ten times as much work as a 'normal' kid.

Pay the school the dinner money directly, go through his room and remove the phone and other illicit items, give him a curfew/ground him for lying, give him no money and take his electronic stuff off him at bedtime so he gets a routine for sleep. Assume he is lying or has an agenda at all times and contact the school to find out about uniform, other parents if he claims he's at their house.

Involve him entirely in family activities, try and find something to like in him and focus on that, spend time with him.

In short, caring for him is a full-time job - I had to go part-time and do evening work when I became a foster carer as some children need you to be on top of them all the time.

This kid has had a lot his own way over the last few years - it will be tremendously hard to pull this back.

I wish you all the luck in the world.

Hi marriednotdead

sorry to hear that you are going through all this. We have been through this at the same age and still going through it now as my son is 20. It is like my story all over again. ADHD could be the problem I always thought my son was but never diagnosed. Maybe you could push this through school or LEA. Also it sound definately like this is drugs realated. You can't make him learn because he has to want to. I think you need to seek professional help if you can and I know how difficult that is because we never got it. If he goes out and you don't know where he is report him missing to the police. I wish I had done that I didn't because I felt I was wasting police time. You need to try and get this under control (easier said than done I know) now if you can. There should be more help available it seems there is nothing. I found that being angry won't help you need to be able to talk and I know that is hard because they can lie through their back teeth. Hope you get some help soon.

More advice - get some counselling from him (through school or camhs), get family counselling for the 3 of you, and get individual for you if you need it.

Get him involved in some activities, Scouts, football, trampolining - he needs less time to get into trouble.

Get him a tutor as he might be falling behind?

Thank you all, got a sneaky 5 mins
Lauriefairycake, have done all you have listed and more. I don't trust him as far as I can kick him! I was away the first week of term and suggested sending a cheque for dinner money but DH thought he could manage the dinner money daily. Clearly not. Not allowed anywhere without double checking where possible.

Has had more time and attention than both my kids and DH put together this last 2 years, a fact I am trying hard not to resent.

ADHD cannot be switched on and off so a couple of really vital days (funerals) where he behaved immaculately for the whole day make me and CAMHS sure that it's a combination of laziness/bad habits/bloodymindedness. His standard MO to get his own way is to try charm, then bully/disrupt followed by go ahead and do whatever anyway.

Is sharing a small room with DS (same age) who has mild ASD so I have to watch that he doesn't get pushed around (although he's got wise to him over the years).
DD is doing her PGCE so that she can teach kids like him- he was the inspiration for her dissertation for her Sociology degree.

DH has had to take most of the last 18 months off work to manage him so we have had added financial strain.

Have got him involved in a youth organisation and both DD and I have been trying to help him catch up with his schoolwork.

pinkchoccy the lying infuriates me, he's not even very good at it! He never seems to think of the consequences of his actions, and is only sorry he got caught when it inevitably happens.
Have had several referrals r.e. ADHD over the years. Psychologist reckons it's as basic as not being given proper boundaries as a toddler so has learnt to manipulate/bully into getting his own way, and that makes sense if you know him.

He doesn't want to do anything except live as hedonistic a life as possible. We have explained bluntly that that route is likely to lead to jail/death. Sounds extreme but there's so much more to this. He has many positive role models (including us)and he does acknowledge that. He pays lip service to changing but clearly does not intend to, so we are at a loss.

He is falling further behind in his schooling and is about 3 academic years behind in my estimation.
We don't want to give up on him but he has already given up on himself

I've had to take a step back emotionally for my own sanity, and to protect my family. DH understands why but feels he is the only one who truly cares now, which means he sometimes tries to keep negative stuff from me. He doesn't want me to think anything worse about DSS and I understand that, but it causes friction between us.

We have always made it very clear that DSS is loved, but that his behaviour is not acceptable and negatively affects us all.

Your dss sounds very like my db (now 21yrs), and sadly for us he has not changed.

He lives in a housing association flat but his housing benefit is always under threat (he does not work/study) as he never signs on for his dole money. My dad buys him groceries and helps with his gas/electric card but he is always well dressed, buys weed, etc and so we know he must be stealing.

He is currently on probabation for this very issue but he rarely goes to appointments or to his community service and it seems to be a matter of time before he spends a (very little) amount of time in jail.

He is horribly Jekyll and Hyde, can be funny and charming but often unpleasant and cruel.

He takes no responsibility for his actions, it is all my parents' fault, despite their constant attempts to help him

He also never seems to think of the consequences and never feels he is wrong. The world seems to owe him and he will just take and use people without a care.

He left school at 16 after being expelled twice with no qualifications, he is dyslexic, dyspraxic and has adhd.

I wish I had a better story. I'm sure others will.

I don't think him going into foster care will help him at all, although I know it would help you as a family. My parents chucked my brother out at 16 (nearly 17) after he got my dad evicted for a second time. They helped him find a place and helped financially but he just uses it as another reason to blame their bad parenting. Also even when they cut him off financially he was not in anyway motivated to work/sort himself out.

We are at a total loss, many, many things have been tried to reach him. He is now talking about doing a college course and I hope he does but he always talks, and he never does.

I look at this post and wonder if I should post, it is so negative, I guess it won't be helpful.

I hope your situation improves, boundaries were always lacking for my brother too and perhaps your stepson is still young enough to enforce some successfully.

Good luck.

Thanks for posting littlesarah, it helps to know I'm not crazy if nothing else! I'm sorry your family has had to go through this crap too.

"He also never seems to think of the consequences and never feels he is wrong. The world seems to owe him and he will just take and use people without a care."

I cannot comprehend where this sense of entitlement comes from. Why do they want to shortcut everything?

We've sent a cheque to school and told DSS that we will be not giving him the 65p per day extra he's been getting until the debt is covered. They've been asking him for weeks and he's told them dad is sorting it.

The coat had been swapped from someone else, (and on again) so we've insisted it is swapped back asap.

Despite all the trouble he's in, DSS still bunked school yesterday and turned up after lunch. DH ended up leaving work as he couldn't concentrate.

Apparently he doesn't have another phone; he text via a free internet service on DS's PSP (he's wisely added a PIN code now). DSS has now been banned from all such devices/PC unless doing homework.

Will look into tutoring although DH disagrees with how far behind I think he is. I'd love to proved wrong on that one.

And SS still insist they cannot take him.

I'm not waving, I'm drowning...

Hi - Have SS offered any other help ??

Maryz your words ring very true. I have stepped back but it's much harder for DH to do. I do love DSS, but see him very much for what he is.

No alternatives on the bedroom sharing front. DD was originally going to leave home this summer but will now be here another 2 years at least as she has gone back to Uni.

I don't judge his mother, in many ways I feel sorry for her.
I have not walked in her shoes for very long in the scheme of things. However, I do know that DSS has never sworn at me, threatened me or disrespected me enough to have driven me to slamming the phone down on him. Equally, I have never treated him in those ways, yet his mother has. His SW says the difference in his behaviour between our home and hers is like night and day.

I am inclined to think that he would always have been hard work, but not as bad as he is now if we'd had him full time from a younger age.

DH has gone through a couple of periods of not speaking to his exp, usually following disagreements regarding parenting. I have always discouraged this as they need to have a working relationship to co-parent. During these times, DSS has told many lies, knowing that neither party will discover the truth.
They are speaking now, but exp would rather not as she often strays onto subjects no longer appropriate.

We've asked SS for counselling. They also said they would try to get DSS a night or two in a local rough hostel to show him the choices he was heading towards.

We're still waiting.

I meant to ask, did SS give you any help MaryZ?

Manda25, if you don't ask, you don't get. They wanted to close the file a few weeks ago

Hi Married - I don't really understand your response to me ?? ... I might be being a bit thick though!! I was wondering if SS had offered an alternative to your DSS going into care. I work for SS (with kids in care) - and where as i can see where they are coming from in refusing to take your DSS into care they should be offering something from the team who works with kids to stop them coming into care (they get called different things in different LA's). Usually in the form of a worker for the parents and a out reach worker for your DSS.

When kids are taken into care it is because they are at serious risk of harm - there are a limited number of places which can cost tax payers up to 6k a week! I really do sympathise (i have a not so perfect 20 yr old son of my own) ...but I really believe that the care system is not the place for your DSS and the like ... unfortunately I don't have the answers to an alternative.

On another note 'being in care' should be a warm safe place for these poor abused kids to go... because being in care is better for the kid then being in a neglectful abusive home ... for 'out of control' kids (with good homes) ...being in care can be horrific for them and shouldn't be used as a punishment ...they can leave a lot worse then when they went in because they feel added to everything else that their parents gave up on them.

There should be something for the in between kids ....the kids that are at risk of going down the youth offending route ...actually that is a point ...have you been in touch with them??

I really hope I haven't offended with my post

Manda25, what I meant was that any help has to be dragged out of SS, and we have to be crying down the phone to even get offered it.
They've given us a lady (not sure of her title) but she comes down every week/10 days to make sure we haven't killed him, and listen to the shit that the SW doesn't have time for.

I know care is not the answer for DSS, it's a shorter route to jail, but I also miss the 12 weeks of calm and sanity we had without him, and that goes for all of us

MaryZ, being strict and controlling sounds perfect to me for dcs like ours.

DSS is not ready to burn his last bridge just yet, but he keeps playing with the matches...

I am in London - and our borough has a fairly successful scheme for kids on the threshold of coming into care .... like most these things I guess it is luck of the draw. On a lighter note I was a horrendous teenager and became a teenage mum ..I was never violent but drugs/staying out all night and bunking school was common practice... my parent well taught morals and values did come through eventually. Good luck with both of your children!

Lots to think about, but I totally agree that more support at this level would be worth the short term expense.
I'm in London too but it's hit and miss with what's available.

I do try to go into each fresh start with a clean slate, but there have been so many and it gets harder each time. The prisons are full of boys like ours who didn't think they were doing anything that bad

I have said for a long time that DSS will always learn the hard way, if at all.

Maryz, when we took DSS full time at 11, I remember saying to DH that it may be too late already but that if it was, no-one would be able to accuse us of not trying. We have put our souls into trying, and for DH especially, he cannot understand why that is still not enough.

All of his behaviours sound exactly like my DS2-13 (really my stepson but I have raised him), who has been diagnosed with RAD (Reactive Attachment Disorder). So much so that I have goosebumps and nothing but empathy for what you have gone through. This frequently turns into Conduct Disorder as they hit the teen years. There is lots of info about it online. My DS is now in a special EBD residential school which DH and I fought high and low to get.

Did your DSS have a rough time in his early months or years?

Thanks ByTheSea, will read up on that in a bit when I am brave enough have less distractions this evening.

His early years were fine as far as I am aware. DH and his mum split when he was around 3 or 4 but remained friendly at that stage, DH has always been very much involved.
Being brutally honest, DH's parenting skills have improved a lot over the years, although he is still a bit of a growler/shouter.
As that has happened, he has become more aware of how inappropriate some of DSS's mums behaviour is - would you have a latchkey kid at 8?- and her defence of some of her choices has helped their relationship deteriorate.

DSS's mum is inclined to argue in public and appears to enjoy confrontation. Examples; she has rowed with teachers in the playground (primary) and allowed DSS to join in.
She turned up to a vital meeting at the last school uninvited (she had an appointment to catch up later the same day). At that point herself and DH could not safely be in the same room. She kicked off in the lobby when they refused her entry and was escorted off the premises.

I keep out of it as far as possible, but she has at times intimated that she would like DH back. I maintain a dignified persona as DH has no interest, and keep my bitchy thoughts to myself

Just wanted to add that some experts still think my DS2 has ADHD (as well as RAD) and for a long time his behaviour was blamed on our parenting (we have other children who are fine). RAD affects executive functioning as does ADHD and ASD (including Aspergers) so they can all look remarkable similar in their manifestations.

Wow, just read the link on RAD .
Definitely one to explore with SS/CAMHS.

Who funds your DS's residential place?

That nice SS lady is coming round this evening

DS's unbelievably expensive residential place is being funded jointly by our LEA and SS (he is currently looked after as Section 20 as he was presenting a danger to our other children and SS felt this our only option), and I believe they're also looking at the NHS to co-fund as well as this is really a mental health issue. It took the LEA a long time to determine that they could not meet his educational needs in county and he missed about a year of school (he had a tutor he refused to engage with). We had to get a statement and prove this though. I believe that unforutnately most chldren with this are just left to plod on destroying their own and others' lives til they get to prison.