to think the minimum guinea pig cage size is too small?

[onthefencesitter]

I just upgraded my hamster's enclosure- a guinea pig wooden cage that measures 150 cm by 60 cm by 45 cm.. Which I read is apparently the minimum cage size for 2 guinea pigs. Having seen my Syrian hamster in this new cage, I don't understand how this size is suitable for guinea pigs? I never had guinea pigs (though I have considered them before and read up a lot about them before); but my hamster utilizes every bit of space in the cage. And a guinea pig is 4 X the size of a hamster and is active for 20 hours a day. Plus there are two of them. Are guinea pigs less active than hamsters?

I am not saying that its wrong to put guinea pigs in a cage of that size but the minimum standards for the various small animals don't make sense to me:

Hamster: 100 by 50 cm for Syrians; 80 cm by 50 cm for dwarf hamsters
Guinea Pigs: 120 cm by 70 cm or 150 cm by 60 cm (depending on what you read)
Rabbits: 3 m by 2m !

Guinea pigs are so much larger than hamsters so why is the minimum requirement for them only 20% larger? Plus they are a social species. I never thought much of the requirements, but now i have a cage that is that size; I actually realize its not actually that big.

I think your hamster cage is way too big..... but I am sure he loves it!

On the other hand, Guineas shouldn't be in their cages 24/7. Most good owners will let the Guineas out every day, ours went out on the grass pretty much all year round, in a very large run. In the evening they were ready to come in to their cosy hutch. They spent most of the time in the sleep end wrapped together under all the hay, and that end I suppose was probably only 30cm at most. The other end which was perhaps twice as large, they only went in to for food and water. Play was outside.

Ah that makes a lot of sense! Thanks for explaining. Its easier I suppose if you have a garden as I imagine there is a lot of mess if they are exclusively indoor pigs. But what happens in winter

I let my hamster out every night but its not very long; he usually wants to go back to the cage after a few minutes.

OP your Hamsters accommodation is not "way too big" as Jumpers suggested and I'd not want anyone reading this post to think yhats the case. Hamsters in the wild travel up to 5 miles at night. I volunteer in rescue and we won't rehome in anything less than 80cm for any breed of Hamster. I have 2 rescue Gerbils in an Ikea Detolf (163cm x 45cm) which work well for Hamsters too. We wage a constant battle with appaling pet shop accomodation thats deemed acceptable. Good upgrade, your Hamster will be thanking you :)

@SilentHedges Thank you, I am actually feeling a bit bummed out now because according to the German standard on this website (not the legal minimum but the recommended size) www.diebrain.de/hi-gehege.html ; my cage size of 0.9 square metres (150 by 60 cm) is not considered ideal. The recommended size for a Syrian hamster starts from 1 square metre which is roughly 180 cm by 60 cm or 200 cm by 50 cm. And according to this site, for guinea pigs, ideal size is 2-3 square metres for 2-5 guinea pigs (minimum 180 cm in length and at least 80 cm in width)- though of course 2-3 square metres would mean at least 200-300 cm in length!

@onthefencesitter I can't read German but I know they have much better accomodation available there, making the minimum sizes easier to attain. The problem is that there's no "legal" minimum size for housing animals in the UK (I am working with people trying to influence parliment). The RSPCA (or Rescues) for example, make recommendations and won't rehome under certain sizes, but when Pets at Home and online sellers sell the most heartbreakingly inadequate housing, which the public think is OK, it feels like a losing battle. People need to be more inventive with sourcing small rodent housing, ie DIY Aquariums or The Ikea Detolf is £75 and a good size.

Personally I don't like to see any animal in a cage, so I only rescue (to stop the funding of breeders) and to make their lives the absolute best they can be, under the circumstances, with plenty of daily free roam time.

I'm a Gerbil expert not a Guinea Pig expert but I do know people keep them in large C&C indoor enclosures to meet those recommended sizes. Hutches need banning!

@SilentHedges are you a Bauhaus fan? Never thought I would come across one on here! 😍

On the topic, I’ve always found pet mammal and bird cages to be horrifically small! In the wild small rodents cover huge areas and are always on the go so I’ve never understood the tiny sizes of most cages!

@PixellatedPixie Thread derail, YES! I thought chances of anyone understanding my username were zero! It's my fav track. Goth/Punk in mid 80s. Saw them in 98. Seeing them in a few weeks at brixton Academy. You?

What is batshit is how it's how you can't actually buy a guinea pig cage that comes close to the recommended size in pet shops. Pretty much every decent guinea pig cage I've seen is custom made.

Oh I just use google translate.

The biggest commercial hamster cage on the market in Germany is Borneo XL (119 cm by 59 cm) or LaOla® Nagarium XXL (120 cm by 50 cm). So 20 cm longer than the Savic Plaza but still smaller than my current cage. The Germans with the huge cages do DIY. I am crap at DIY so I bought my cage from a carpenter who builds guinea pig cages. In the uk, i feel its much less common to build your own cage from scratch- like buying the wood and designing it to your specifications (not just using linmon table tops and screwing it together and adding perspex). In germany it seems very common with the hamster community.

Its to convince the parents that the new furry rodent wouldn't take up much space and can fit into the child's room. So they buy the pet. If you told them that a pair of guinea pigs would need a huge pen in the living room or a wooden shed that will cost at least a few hundred in materials if not labour, I don't think it would be a popular pet. Same if you told them about the hamster. my MIL quipped that she understands why we need a bigger flat now, she thinks that the hamster would soon take up more space than me and my husband! She probably thinks I am quite mad.

I once went to a house viewing where there was a lone guinea pig sitting sadly in a cage smaller than my first hamster cage (80 cm by 50 cm Savic Hamster Heaven) in the kitchen. I was so distracted by that I barely took in the rest of the house.

I’m also a huge fan! I saw them at Brixton Academy a few years ago. I lived in South Africa in my teens so didn’t get to see much before moving here.

@onthefencesitter Yes, Google translate, so obvious. "I can't read German" Oh dear.😂

Yes, if proper housing was supplied by pets shops they wouldn't sell many animals, which doesn't boost their profits.

On the rescue side we always ask for the previous owner to donate the pets accomodation to the charity. 1. If it actually is the right size we can use it for rehoming which is great or 2. It's usually completely unsuitable so we take everything to the local tip, crushed and separated, to make sure it is out of circulation and no pet will suffer it again. Same with free ads, we destroy those too. I spend a lot of time at the dump.

Ah fantastic! I was lucky to be London based in the 80s and saw so many bands. What a great time to be alive. Bauhaus are so much more than Goth, so creative. I just hope they don't "fall out" again, in the next fortnight.

A thread where Rodent housing requirements meets the magnificence of Gothic Art Rock!

Absolutely this! So many people underestimate the correct size for hamster cages because places like Pets at Home sell ones which are basically tiny prisons. My gerbils live in an IKEA Detolf and anyone who visits always says "gosh that's such a big cage!" and I have to explain that actually it's what they need, plus a wheel, plus play time out of the cage where possible. It's so wonderful that your hamster has such a good sized cage. Does your hamster have a sand bath and wheel? My gerbils love their sand baths and wheels and it's so sweet to watch them. You're doing a fab job OP, I'm so glad you've looked into things and got an appropriately sized cage.

To answer your question - I do think that's quite a small space for guinea pigs if I'm honest, though I have seen much worse (unfortunately). I don't have much experience in piggies but bigger is always better and they can be very unhappy if they don't have all the space they need.

Yes he has a sandbath and a Trixie wheel!

That cage looks amazing @onthefencesitter where did you get it? Feeling very sorry for my girl now 😢

I'm not sure about the one that OP posted but can recommend the following as good sized hamster cages:

IKEA Detolf with DIY lids (you can make them yourself or buy from a site called Freddie and Friends)

Check Facebook market place for people selling fish tanks or glass tanks - they make great hamster cages, again with DIY lids. Some people sell them with the lids already made

The pawhut cage is a good size: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B09BC6C1L8?tag=track-ect-uk-299146-21&linkCode=osi&th=1&psc=1&ascsubtag=ecSEPc5agul6qe654g but if your little girl is a chewer she may manage to chew through the wood over time!

Jungle pets sell ready made ones: https://www.junglepets.co.uk/hamster--gerbil-mice-tank--36-x-21-tall-x-15-no-platforms-2371-p.asp

Also, if you Google "DIY IKEA hamster cage" people have made some incredible ones out of cheap IKEA cabinets.

For Syrian hamsters the bare minimum is: 80x50cm continuous floor space, but bigger is always better as Syrians are extremely active. Wheels for Syrians need to be at least 28cm diameter too, as anything smaller causes them to bend their backs as they run which over time causes chronic back pain.

It's a bit of a minefield out there as unfortunately hamster (and other rodent care!) is only just starting to improve. For years places like Pets at Home have given the incorrect advice and sold cages that are far too small. Nobody knows why, but the main consensus is because if most people knew what size cages rodents really needed, nobody would buy them, so it's a money making thing. There's lots of active petitions for the government to make minimum cage requirements law for rodents, but I doubt it will happen anytime soon; though in some countries it is already a thing which is great.

It's lovely that you're wanting to upgrade your girl. I promise that with some easy DIY and a cheap Facebook marketplace find it won't be that expensive and can look absolutely amazing. Check out Instagram for some ideas of how people have made their cages extra enriching for their hamsters, there's some lovely ideas on there x

www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07GVLD4FD/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I had to ask the seller to make it with smaller mesh :)

I have looked at the jungle pets tank but it seemed quite expensive/difficult to deliver to zone 3 London where I live so I went with this wooden cage instead. My friend who has the pawhut advised it would be hard to clean. I am bad at DIY so did not try IKEA !

@onthefencesitter agree that the Jungle Pets ones are expensive for what they are. It's a shame that companies can't just make lots of appropriate size hamster cages and sell them in shops etc, then they'd be easier to find and probably cheaper! Love the one you have! I've said to my partner before that if we had the money we'd set up a business selling gerbil/hamster tanks and doing all the DIY because we've had to really learn a lot along the way to be able to make things for ours as they're not so easily available on the market haha

@Springblossom2022 As you have Gerbils too, I've written my own Gerbil care website with a colleague from my rescue. We got so fed up of crap information in the internet we wrote our own. We talk about housing here, albeit more Gerbil specific, plus hints and tips gerbilcare.co.uk/

I was corresponding with the MD of Jungle Pets explaing how he could make the tanks more user friendly / fit 28cm wheels etc.