DS1 wants pet rats. Questions, questions, questions!

[Methren]

DS1 is about to turn 8 and has been asking for a pet forever. He wants pets with personality that he can interact with and after doing some research we (and he) think that pet rats would be a good choice. However I have some questions and would be most grateful if some experienced rat owners could help answer them.

Is it OK to have a pair or is a group of 3 better? I have come across some breeders' sites which say that being one of a pair is too unnatural for the rats, but I worry that DS won't have time to give 3 enough handling.

The best place we have to keep them would be our conservatory, which is separated from the main part of the house by a door, is unheated in winter and can get greenhouse-hot on hot summer days. However I have read that rats don't do well with extremes of heat and cold. Would it be OK to keep them in the conservatory for most of the time, but then move them into the living room on hot days in summer or add extra bedding in winter?

I get that rat muesli from pet shops is the equivalent of junk food and have been reading about the Shunamite diet. However I'm a bit nervous about a DIY diet - every breeder seems to recommend a different version and some fo the ingredients seem hard to source. Does anyone know a novice-friendly Shunamite diet recipe with ingredients that are easy to source and don't require being super-organised to arrange lots of different online orders?

We don't have family nearby that could help out with holiday pet care. Is it OK to use small-animal boarding if/when we go away on holiday?

All responses gratefully received!

Have you thought about gerbils instead? They are hardy, quite low maintenance and have lots of personality. They probably wouldn't like the cold much but are originally desert creatures so within reason the heat shouldn't be too much of a problem.

Either that or a kitten? Loads of interaction, he can really play/bond/cuddle up with one. Also lots of catteries about for when you go away. But no where near as high maintenance as a puppy.

Disclaimer, have never owned rats so shouldn't really be commenting in the thread at all!!

You want PixieofCatan - send her a PM

She has (IIRC) 5 rats at the moment, she can give you ideas on where to keep them and food.

DSD has rats, she's got 3 she did have 2 then one died and she got 2 more to keep him company. Don't really notice the difference between 2 & 3 to be honest.
Ours are kept in the study as it's shaded from direct sunlight and away from draughts.
Hers are fed rat nuggets but also get a bowl of fresh fruit & veg each morning. Dsd's rats like to steal shiny things and put them in their cage. We got males as females are more prone to tumours and males want cuddles more.

We always had rats ( before getting our dog who hates small furries) and I don't think a conservatory is that suitable ,rats like lots of company and entertainment so a lounge or well used bedroom would be better . They do make excellent pets.

Sorry I'm late

Great to see you've been reading up on them a bit :) There's a lot to learn but equally, once you know it's easy to remember :)

I'd say 3. We have a pair of boys and have 3 girls. We actually had a pair of each but when one of our girls got a tumour we had to get two more as we couldn't leave her sister as a lone rat. For that reason I think three is good. Younger rats are less likely to get tumours or die, but they can have some pretty scary accidents and all operations with rats hold a (small) chance of losing them, so if that happens you don't want to be scrabbling around trying to find a new rat or two whilst you and your existing rat are grieving the one you've lost. One of our boys had to have his eye out at 3 months old and we did panic a bit and start contacting breeders just in case we needed to get a new rat ASAP.

Also, we found that their behaviours changed between 2 and 4 (and then 3), it was interesting to watch them interact in groups. I do wonder what it'd be like to add two more to our boys cage but our landlady has vetoed any more unless we're in the same situation as before (one of the boys dying and needing to get him company).

RE the conservatory, I'd avoid that. They do need a pretty constant temperature. From July to last week our rats have been somewhat sluggish in the middle of the day and we live in a cooler basement flat. Today is the first time I've seen them running around during the day in a while actually. But the conservatory would probably be a great place to free range them as long as it wasn't too hot/cold.

I use a variation of the shunamite. It takes tweaking and you learn from your rats what they will and won't eat. Mine won't eat the smaller grains, for example, but love those barley ring things, so I've tweaked it and order in more of those now. I did put in a lot of seeds in my seed/herb/veg quota, but they don't like them so much but they love the dried veg and herbs, so more of those will go in from now on.
www.fancyratsforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=56
I use the above version, I don't know if you would have found it, I stumbled across it when looking for ways to improve my mix a few months ago. It is the updated Shunamite, but the actual website was never updated. I get most of my ingredients from Rat Rations, it's cheap, extremely quick delivery and they've always been very good at handling my queries/complaints/suggestions about products. They have pretty much everything you need to make up your own muesli.
The problem with muesli is that you may have picky eaters. Ours love the dried fish we have this time round, will happily leave the grains. We're going to start mixing in a bit more pellet-type food into our muesli (they love Supreme Science Selective Rat Food) to even it out a bit.

We don't have a set recipe as we just make ours up from whatever we have in roughly the right ratios, mix in the local breeders bags occasionally for variety, chuck in different protein sources, etc. We have a massive box that we mix it up in and keep a smaller box and scoop by the cages.

We don't have family nearby either, managed to find a lovely woman who'd owned rats for 20 years before her partner vetoed them for a couple of years, so they compromised that she was allowed to rat sit for people instead!

Where in the country are you? I can wholeheartedly recommend an NFRS breeder and a rat sitter near Brighton, and also recommend the NFRS breeder we got our boys from in Kent :)

I'm also going to say that this cage is brilliant:
www.littlepetwarehouse.co.uk/hamberley-single-metal-large-cage-p-12607.html
We didn't want all metal but our rescued girls were chewers so we had to make the leap, but it's such a good cage that I don't regret it! We're actually going to replace our boys cage with another of these when we can afford it.
That site is also good for rat bits, but do not trust what they say is "rat proof" or "suitable for rats", a lot of what they sell as suitable is not. The wheels being the primary example. Once you get to know rats you'll get to know what is/isn't suitable, I still check things on rattit or on the facebook group I'm on if I'm not sure.

I don't know if you're planning to get a wheel (they don't get much use out of them tbh), but as this is something I'm anal about I'll say it: please make sure you get one that has a solid running part and no extra wires attached to it. Anything with bars or mesh be wary of as they can get feet caught whilst running and break a leg. Anything with bars going across the diameter they can get a tail lopped off by. Rats need big wheels. 12" or so. Small wheels can damage their backs. Giant Silent Spinners are probably some of the best wheels for rats, though you can get cheaper ones. I love the look of the flying saucer style wheels too, apparently rats like them too but I don't know anybody with one.
So this:
www.littlepetwarehouse.co.uk/blue-metal-large-28cm-degu-chinchilla-wheel-p-16673.html
Is a no go. The bars across the wheel and the frame can decapitate them even though the wheel is actually solid and it's a good size.

Girls are more prone to tumours but you can reduce that risk significantly by spaying them young. Our babies were done the week before last at 11/12wo. I don't see a huge difference energy-wise between the boys and girls though. That's more down to the personality of the rat I've found. One of our babies will sit in my bra for an hour given the chance, the other is a shoulder ratty, one of the boys is very much a shoulder rat but I can get the rare cuddle out of him when he's sleepy and docile. Our older girl gives us cuddles when she's in the mood too. All of them run around like mad when we're free ranging. The boys are straight behind the computers and the dark spaces on the edges of the room, the girls only really free range on the desk. We have just started letting them on the floor and it still freaks them out at the moment!

www.facebook.com/groups/121707247908142/?fref=ts

That's the rat group I'm on, lots of knowledgeable people on there (though some I disagree with) and it's the page of my local breeder (Fugly/Seagull Stud in Brighton, run by Sharon Williams) but there are people from all over on it.

If you're near Brighton I definitely recommend going to Sharon's shop. She opened it this summer and it's brilliant. Most things are cheaper than you can buy them for online, she's extremely knowledgeable and her shop is pretty much rat orientated. She sells a lot online and through the group. The hammocks she sells are fantastic and very cheap.

Oh, what I forgot to say was that it may be worth looking up sounds of rats breathing. There is a site that DP found ages ago which was brilliant, but it had sounds of them at various stages of URIs, sounds that were okay (hiccups) sounds that you should be aware of and sounds that meant "Get to a vet NOW." Rats are prone to URIs, you need a vet with experience of handling and treating rats because, quite often, they just don't pick up on the early stages of a URI. We called every vet in our area and asked them about rat experience.

We actually ended up with two to choose from, one that came well recommended by rat owners and one that had a young rodentologist and two senior vets with 10+ years experience. A lot of the staff actually owned rats as well. So we went with them and don't regret it.

And as I think of it, please don't get baby rats from a pet shop, always go to an NFRS breeder. Pet shop rats are often from big commercial breeders, aren't well handled, are prone to health issues, etc. NFRS breeders and studs have to ensure that they have a healthy breeding line, don't breed rats who are ill or prone to illness, they have to enter shows and win them, be knowledgeable about rats, go through a process of being a 'rattery' before getting their stud membership, etc.

I would get 3 rats as well although they do become a bit of an addiction. I've only ever had boy rats. They are very friendly but supposedly mark their territory more as they run around. As pixie says, girls are more prone to tumours.
Get the biggest cage that you can find. Metal is better but if it has a metal grid on the floor you will need to cover it. Rats love hammocks to sleep in and climb in. You can buy commercial ones or I used to use cut up clothes ( a pair of jeans with the legs cut off was always a favourite). Stuff in ages does get we'd on so you need to make sure everything can be washed easily (including the cage).
I would personally avoid the conservatory. Which room do you use most often? My rats used to be kept in the lounge and I would open the cage door when I sat down to watch TV. I would always end up with a rat or 2 snuggled up on my lap.

Ooh, thank you everyone - really useful replies.

We had already decided on boy rats from a temperament and health point of view. I am tempted to go for 3, just so that we don't have to rush to acquire new companions if something were to happen to one of them unexpectedly.

Definitely going to a breeder, not a pet shop. We are in NE London so looking at Essex/Herts/Cambs breeders on the NFRS list.

Looks like the conservatory is out then. The other place we could keep them is the DCs (large) playroom, but it doesn't get much through traffic unless DCs are in there playing. I would like keep them in the living room, but DH keeps workaholic late working hours so the room would have the lights on until the wee small hours. Unless covering the cage with a towel/blanket would make it dark enough?

The other thing I've just thought of is that we occasionally get (wild) mice indoors. Major infestation when we moved in a few years ago but now only the very occasional sighting. Would this be a big issue with pet rats health-wise?

Thought of another thing: Get some slate and/or bricks for the cage, their nails get sharp. Our boys scratch us the worst as they're so big. We don't have anything in their cage as they got really smelly about two months ago so we binned them and haven't replaced them

Ah, if you are willing to brave the QE2, Ann Storey of Rivendell is just the other side of the bridge, we got our boys from her. She's one of the best in the country from what I can tell and her rats are perfect quality looks wise. Her rats supposedly have a reputation of being a bit less friendly than others but tbh, our boys have been fine from the beginning. Our baby girls are friendlier and were from the start, but the boys were handleable and happy to sit on your shoulder from day one.

Living room would be fine. Rats are up and down through the day, they adapt to your schedule very well. Ours got used to when we'd be home quite quickly and the rough timings when we'd mostly ignore them or play with them. Four of them are dozing at the moment but one of the babies was curious when DP got home and she's now running around my lap and head and shoulders and chest.

We have 13 rats at the moment and they are fantastic pets. I would really recommend them for an older child more than a hamster or gerbils because they are friendly, easy to socialise and just great company. They have so much personality too and can be very affectionate. I think 5 is the best group size we've had but 3 is absolutely fine. I'd prefer a trio to a pair. We have a 9 and a 4 at the moment but as the oldies go we're going to let the bigger group dwindle to a small group so we can spend more 1:1 time with them again.

Thanks once again, especially to Pixie for so much detailed info.

Living room is looking more likely. I have worked out that if we turn off the lights in the part of the room we don't use in the evening (instead of leaving them all blazing) then half the room is dimly lit, so that might work if we also put a cover on the cage at night.

I'm thinking that we might go for a cage on legs and put a barrier around each leg in case we ever get mice in the house again. Or is that a bit mad?

I don't think you can put covers on rats Methren they'd pull it into the cage with their tiny rat hands, like hoisting up an anchor.....and shred it

That's what comes of only owning a budgie as a child. I can see I have a lot to learn.

:) No worries. Love rats!

A cover will get destroyed Our lot are very good at pulling things in that we had no clue that they could reach. Notably, DP threw a shirt off to swap it shortly after we got the big girls. It landed a good couple of inches away and literally five minutes later he realised they'd got it half into the cage and shredded it. It was brilliant
They really don't need a cover though, if the light annoys them they'll find somewhere dark in their cage to sit, just provide hidey holes (boxes are great for that!)

RE the mice, if you got a cage with small bar spacing they shouldn't be able to get through? Or am I wrong? I know nothing about mice, I know that they're small but surely 10mm bars would keep them out I don't know if infections/diseases can transmit from mice to rats either. I wouldn't worry too much about it though.

One thing I advise getting is baby rings. They are brilliant for hanging hammocks and toys up with! We bought a load on amazon. If they fall and bash into them on the way down they are less likely to hurt them too.