Rabbit people - HELP!

[fluffyraggies]

Help me please with this. Bare with me i'm going to tell you the whole story!

For the last 12 years since the DCs were young we have kept guinea's. Lots of them. Very successfully. Free roaming on the lawn when it's nice enough out. Indoors in those big plastic tray cages at night and during the winter. All fine.

Now. Over the last couple of years all but 1 of the DCs have begun to loose interest in the piggies so DH and i have not been replacing them as they have passed on to piggy heaven. We are now down to 2 (6 year old) plump piggies in their mahoosive indoor tray cage thing + the lawn.

We have all enjoyed having the little creatures free on the lawn, but I should have stuck to my guns till we had no more piggies or anything else and bought a lawn mower.

The DC who IS still interested in the animals asked for a rabbit and i obliged. We've had her for 2 months. I had visions of treating her similar to the piggies (i know they eat different food) but with a bit of free roam around the house time too. How wrong was i??

Firstly this bun is meant to be a miniature cashmere lop, but is growing and growing! She is about 5 months now. I am worried about her having enough room in the 'tray' at this rate. The floor area of it is comparable to a large hutch. She HATES being in her tray and constantly tries to get out (she gets on fine with the piggies, they all groom each other) and it makes me feel bad about putting her in it. She nibbles and nibbles at the bars and digs hard. So frustrated. She is a beautiful, pale grey, gentle looking creature - but she is such a bugger! She is soooo strong and scratches and kicks furiously, grunting with the effort, when anyone tries to hold her or carry her to the garden. I've got awful scratches all up and down my wrists and arms from day to day contact with her.

She'll jump up on the sofas and hop across us, but wont let us touch her. She stamps all the time. I try to give her loads of time out and about free on the lawn for both our sakes. I have bought one of those big covered litter trays and put a bathmat in it as a warm dry bolt hole for her outside, but she can't live out there all day through the winter! She can't be let out around the house anymore like i envisaged because of the pooing, weeing, scratching and nibbling everywhere. She seems to save the poo up for when she's let out! (what did i expect - i know i know). She's not interested in her toys. She's just pushy and shovey and never seems content. What happened to happy grazing?

She's outside right now charging round and round the lawn in circles in the wind like a thing possesed! She's shoved the last of the plant pots off the wall and has been working on the plastic edging of the patio door. (the pigs are indoors, snoozing) I think she'd be happy to never come in. I've kept Great Danes in the past - i can't believe i can't cope with a bloomin bunny :(

Lastly can i add for info that she has cost us over £200 in vets bills already because of an abscess in her cheek. I'm saying this to show that i want to give this bun a happy home but i'm struggling here. I don't want to shut her outside in a hutch, i couldn't bare it, and i fear if i re-home her this may well be what will happen to her. This just all doesn't feel right :(

Am i doing something wrong or should i just not have bought a bunny?

Ok, with the carrying into the garden- can you get a cat carrier or a cardboard box and train her to hop in there for transport. They are very clever and it won't take long for her to cotton on. Most rabbits hate being picked up, carried etc.

Is getting another Rabbit a option and keeping them outside? They are very hardy, most love a romp around in the snow.

She will be much happier with one of her own kind. Pigs and Rabbits shouldn't really be in together due to the damage even a sedate Bunny can cause by accident to a piggie. It may even calm her down, and if nothing else will prevent boredom.

If you have a house rabbit you have to be pre-pared for the rabbit to ruin your home . Extreme Rabbit proofing is needed to prevent this! Every wire out the way, grids along your walls to stop scratching at skirting boards/wallpaper, all table/chair legs etc meshed to prevent chewing.....

I am afraid that vets bill is just going to grow, she will need her jabs, and to be spayed. They are surprisingly expensive animals to keep.

I had two rabbits who would not be tamed, no matter how much bloody time and effort I spent trying. I sat with them for hours and hours...in the end I gave up. I made sure they were well looked after and had all needs met and left them to it. They were happy, I was a bit miffed but thats life.

Good luck, it sounds like you are a good owner, you just need to learn to get along! Please really think about company for her . :)

Thank you so much monkey :) It's so helpful to read about your experiences and, in fact, the experiences of others on other rabbitty threads here. It's heartening to hear that depite the best will in the world some buns are not that happy with cuddles.

Bun does indeed seem a very devious clever little critter

Well she's spent all day today mooching and whizzing round the garden (Ignoring the warm little house i made for her, despite the cold wind. Typical) and seems happily zonked out now, back indoors with the piggies. Perhaps she's just got tons and tons of energy and cant/wont tolerate being shut up in a cage or hutch for part of the day.

Thinking now about getting a 'day hutch' for outside, and bringing her in at dusk each evening. Are buns hardy enough for this? You see i'm used to having the laid back piggies indoors full time for the cold months. This is new stuff with bunnies. I could keep bun in on ridiculously horrible days or when DC wants to sit with her for a struggle cuddle :) What are anyones thoughts on this?

I totally take on board what you are saying about a companion rabbit. I'd have to do serious work on DH for that though! The rabbit prob's have made him declare 'no more animals'.

Bringing her in and out won't do her respiratory system any good. We have two rabbits. They live outside. Their home is half a shed with a open hutch in it that they can get in and out of whenever they like. They have a cat flap type door to their run. The run is 12ft by 6ft. They can access that when ever they like too, unless it is very cold when I close the little cat flap door up at night. By very cold I mean below freezing. I put a hot pack in the hutch at night now it is getting colder. When it is really cold and their door is shut I leave a greenhouse heater on overnight that keeps the temperature above 5 degrees.
Rabbits are crepuscular, which means they are most active at dawn and dusk.
Even when it snows they love to play outside. I also let them run free in the garden when I am home.
Rabbits are happiest with another rabbit. A rescue centre will help bond your rabbit for you if you do decide to get another one. They will let her go speed dating to find her ideal friend!!

It's hard having a bunny that doesn't love you!! Mine doesn't, i tried for ages but she just doesn't like being handled, so I got another rabbit and they are very happy together!! They live outside unless it is so cold I can't keep water liquid, they hop around and play together and see me as some sort of Tesco delivery lady as original bunny is a girl and I was advised to get a boyfriend rather than another girl but any good rescue centre should help you with this. I don't know what I will do if the boy dies first cos I really don't want another! Good luck!

They are completely different to pigs. Our previous bun was a female and she was a bad tempered thing (hated everyone really except me and kids). Get her spayed - it should calm her down a bit as a lot of the behaviour you describe is hormonal. Most rabbits aren't over keen on being picked up for cuddles but will allow you to stroke them when they are on the ground - they are contrary creatures and have strong opinions (much like my 12 year old DD's).

It does sound like she's determined to live outdoors. Could you house her outdoors permanently (she would really need a friend)? When I was a kid, my buns lived outdoors all year round and loved going out in the snow - they lived to a ripe old age as well.

You sound like a fantastic mum to your animals, so I hope she settles down for you.

Hi, she sounds very hormonal. Getting her spayed would be the first thing to do, 85 per cent of unspayed female rabbits will die from uterine cancer before they are 3.
She really does need a partner, could you live alone for the rest of your life without contact with your own species? (sounds slightly interesting lol!).
You have to be prepared for the fact that she may never be a cuddly bun but you are going to need to be able to groom her if she's a cashmere as she will become matted very easily.
As for bringing her in and out, it really isn't a good idea as it will be too warm inside and then too cold outside
You sound like you really want whats best for her and that your at your whits end. If you do feel like you can't keep her then you could try some local rehoming centres, you could ask if they home check so that she doesn't end up stuffed in a hutch at the end of the garden. If this is the road you are thinking of going down then you can PM me and I might be able to offer some more advice/help.
Good luck, I hope all goes well.

Firstly get her spayed as female rabbits can be very hormonal. Secondly don't keep her with the pigs. Not only could she hurt them but can pass respirator nasties on to them.

I had a rabbit when I was a kid who refused to be in a cage so just lived loose in the garden. She had a hutch if she needed it and was fine.

Rabbits are much harder work than pigs. Pigs rule!

rabbits need a cage then can stand up on their hinds legs in.

Ours live outside in double hutch. If she has been indoor, she will need extra insulation on the cage to make sure she doesn't get cold until her fur thickens up.

We put ours out into outside run every day in summer (would not let them loose, as they could dig out of garden, or eat all my plants) Now the weather is cold, they don't go out in the run (if we put them out they huddle in the corner/box all day long)
Now they are restricted to hutch, we bring them in in the evening sometimes for a run around. if they have been in the hutch for a few days they race around the lounge madly letting of steam for about half an hour.

Ours are very tame though. Rabbits don't like being picked up. We were taught to train them by using a piece of sheepskin/blanket/towel and put that next to you on the sofa and put rabbit on it and stroke them gently. Even our veyr tame rabbits can be very grumpy if they don't want to be handled. our famale is not neutered and when she comes into season she has very bad PMT, and bites.

They chew EVERYTHING especially wires, they love wires, make a beeline for them and snip, no TV.

They tend to pee/poo in one place, so then you put down paper, and they litter train to that place. if they are unhappy, they may put a ring of poo in the floor and sit in the middle, makes them feel safe

I wanted to thank all the posters for their input, and give a little update :)

OK - so, the saga of Bun - thanks to this thread the DCs and i have accepted that Bun doesn't like being handled. She does indeed quite like a good stroke (and brush) as long as it's on her own terms ie.next to us on sofa or on floor.

I have pushed the cage/tray/pen up against the patio doors. Now, 2 or 3 times a day i open the patio door and she hops out over the edge of her tray into the garden for a run about (the wire top of the pen is backless. Weird i know, but it's worked out handy) and 9 times out of 10 she hops back in of her own accord when i open the patio door again later when i see she's near it. This has massively reduced the amount of rabbit wrestling that was going on, and is giving her excersise. We've had to stop her having much access to the house as she is aggressive with the 2 cats (cats are rag dolls and very soppy) Bun will literally bounce around the sofas and chase them through the lounge and kitchen (open plan house) to get rid of them from 'her' space.

I am going to look into neutering her this very day. It's partly the reason for the update as i know it's frustrating to give advice if it's not taken.

I have taken on board what people have said about coming in and out of the house not being ideal - but i honestly don't think a permanent outdoor home for her would work for us. I'm picturing Bun being largely ignored out there and that would distress me :( I'm not saying she'd be neglected, of course, but indoors she gets attention and gets touched sees the coming and going of thr family, and gets treats. The pen is in a busy part of the home and gets cleaned out lots, she gets let out for a run and let back in again, generally part of the family IYKWIM.

I have another question now folkes. Sorry if it's a long ramble but i want to illustrate the scene. Bun's been having the run of the garden when she goes out up to now. We have a fairly plain patio with a little flight of steps up to a simple lawn. Bun has started to dig up the lawn now not around the edges, but in random spots. Especially when it's raining for some reason. (she doesn't seem to eat the grass at all much. Didn't in the summer either) I'd like to confine her out door excercise to just the patio by blocking off teh little steps. She has a plastic rabbit tunnel on the patio and 2 of those wooden bendy houses to run though and a little house for her to shelter in that she never goes in so it's a bit like a big run for her. But it means a stone floor only - no grass. Does this seem cruel? Do other bun keepers have their pens on stone only ever?

For info - the piggies don't go outside at this time of year. They are cozy indoors full time.

Thanks again.

Right, stone would be fine, not perfect, but absolutely fine. You can get some lovely big cat litter trays to fill with hay, and she would be happy.

Rabbits cope better with cold than heat, so letting an indoor bun run outside isn't as bad as vice versa, but it still really isn't very good for her, and can lead to shock.

She is still very young and it takes a long time to tame a rabbit. They don't like being picked up, because they have a very strong prey instinct. Someone suggested using something else to pick them up - mine are trained with cat carriers.

Please consider moving her outside in spring. I have a trio, they live outside in a big double hutch which I joined together with a chicken coop style hutch to give them running space. They get let out every morning to free range in the garden and at dusk I go out and they come charging down the garden for their tea and get locked up for night. It took a long while to gain their trust - by NOT picking them up, offering food constantly and stroking them. Now, as soon as I open the back door they come running down. Often, if I haven't given them a morning snack, they will sit outside the patio door staring at me, begging.

My gardens is similar to yours, small patio then steps up to the lawn. I did originally restrict them to the patio, while we were still training htem, but they would jump over the fencing I put up to get up to the lawn anyway! They can happily jump 3 foot or so.

They have built a burrow under the shed, but apart from that they are quite happy now wiht their territory and don't make any attempts to escape from the garden.

The grass is very poor in nutrition now it is the winter, and she won't eat much of it. She needs a big handful of nice hay a day, and you can get readigrass, which some buns like as a grass substitute.

Oh and I do agree about her needing a companion, rabbits are highly social creatures. My three all sleep together at night, cuddled up, even though they have the odd squabble during the day. Companions help keep each other warm through the winter too!

Thank you ever so much for that chops. It all makes lots of sense. I now have fond imaginings of her becoming tame enough to run to us one day

Our lawn is actually about 4 feet higher than the patio, with a retaining brick wall, so if i block the steps she really cannot get up there. Just that bit too high :) Though she does sit and think about it - i've seen her! I'll block the steps then for the winter months. At least while the lawn is so sodden and easy to dig up as it is right now.

The hay in the big litter tray is a really good idea. The 'house' i mentioned she has out there is one of those giant litter trays with big high cover. It was a brand new spare one. I've taken the swing door taken off. I've been keeping a little rug in there for her to sit on (like you do!) but she's turned her nose up at that from day one. Preferring to run about in the rain. And presumably the snow when we get it! I'll try the hay.

Bun + piggies do have access to hay 24/7 in their pen in a chunky hay rack. It is indeed very important for both their diets.

All ideas on all the above very welcome :) I'm so grateful.

Mine have been in and out all of their hutch all day today - the rain really doesn't bother them!

I would jsut keep an eye out and make sure she doesn't escape from the patio. She may well try it! Our smallest, is the black ninja rabbit - she climbs on top of her hutch! If you were really daft, you could even plant some grass in some patio planters for her if the patio is going to be a permanent solution

She will get tame eventually. The sole focus of a rabbit is FOOD, so as soon as she associates you with food, she will have it! Jsut find a favourite food - a stalk of coriander, a slice of banana, anything, and give it each time she comes out. Also, for the chewing, if you have any apple or pear trees around, she would probably love a branch of that to chew on. Mine chew on the garden trees!

is she litter trained yet? Mine have trays with newspaper and hay, and they love to sit there, pee and eat!

there are pics on my profile. :)