A question for those experienced in frizzy thick hair issues

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Hi there,

There was a fab thread here a while back about the woes experienced by those of us with thick curly/frizzy hair. I remember 'mushroom-head' (aka short layers) and hairdressers going 'your hair's very thick isn't it' in an annoyed tone of voice (like, yes, I have thick hair on purpose to piss you off ) being mentioned. So I know there are mumsnetters out there who totally feel my pain

My hair, left to its own devices, is like 80s heavy metal hair. Huge, thick, very curly underneath but sort of frizzy on top (so can't even say I'm blessed with bouncing ringletty curls). I have worn it in a sort of layered bob for a few years but now I'm growing it out again as I've been feeling distinctly middle-aged and I love the idea of having long hair.... but I just don't have the 2hrs+ needed to blow-dry and straighten it to match the image of 'long hair' in my head. Currently I usually wear it tied back

My question today: have any of you ever tried 'permanent straightening'? I read a while back about this permanent blow-dry procedure you can have at some salons. It costs about 200 quid though, which puts it firmly in the realms of maybe-another-day. But I'd love to hear about it if any of you have ever had it done. Then the other day in boots I noticed a 'permanent straightening' kit... a bit like a home perm I guess. They even sell root touch-up kits for it.

But I've never met or spoken to anyone who's used such a thing and it seems a bit of a scarey, chemically thing to undertake. Sky-high going hideously wrong potential.... paranoid fantasises of being stuck with brittle wispy green hair or something.

Any experience? Any other ideas about how to 'do' long hair when you have hair like mine?

I have gone 'no poo' and the results are fab. So far I have chucked out everything with sulphates or silicones in it. Am using olive oil and curl creme in my hair and its just getting softer and softer and more and more ringletty - even tho I am being a lazy slattern and going to bed without tying it up. This usually gives me something approaching dreadlocs

How are you going roundwindow? Did you go natural or chemical? And what happened...

Wow! Thanks so much for all these replies. I think I need to come round to the 'loving my curly hair not fighting it' mentality (much better for my self-esteem anyway ) Saves me increasing my credit card bill even further with these expensive straightening treatments too. Definitely going to seek out the Lorraine Massey book and try the not shampooing thing.... sounds like those of you who've tried it are really onto something good.

Thanks again all you bouncy-haired lovelies

PS: am in need of a haircut soon (still growing it out but really need a trim as it's almost all one length now and looking distinctly witchy) What 'long' hairstyles have worked for any of you? Is a fringe (something I've been considering but have never had before) a terrible idea? Will it boing up and make me look like a poodle?

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my hair is thick, extremely thick (I also get the 'my god your hair is thick' comments from hair dressers while they call over their colleagues to come and look at this freakish example of crap hair).

The only hair do that works for me is lots of layers, but imagine a little skull cap on your head, NO layers above that.

I blowdry the front hair smooth (never straight! ha as if I could) and just blow dry the top.

I put a bit of condition on it before it's dry to kind of tame it.

I agree with pster who says don't wash it too often.

Even doing all this, my hair is still quite 'big'

Bloss, You could try opening the plaits/braid once hair is dry. Some people get a nice spiral out of that thats nicely 'tame'and lasts a few days without re-wetting. Lots of curly hair stuff isnt so much about products but more about how you do thngs, how you comb it, how you dry it and a lot of that depends on what curl texure you have.

I dont really see why you couldnt do any of the no poo tips on a child. Having more manageable hair is juts easier regardless of whether you then wear it open or in plaits. All you are doing is switching shampoos and conditioners to non-silicone non-sulphate versions and shampooing less. I would have more reservations about using a relaxer/or chemical straightener on a child.

In terms of length I find it much easier to have hair at a length where I can tie it back. That way I have a few days a week where I just wear it like that, this means it tangles less during the day and I have less to do in the morning in terms of styling it.

I really hope you look up how best to deal with your daughters curls. My mum (love her) did the classic white-mum-of-mixed-race-kids thing and was totally clueless about how to cope with our hair. She cut all our hair short, combed it when dry and everything else. We looked like boys for years, sported nasty puffy afros, then experimented with the chemicals, not pretty if you ahve quite weak hair (relaxers at that time were made for fully afro hair) I hated my hair well into my twenties. Had a baldie period from about 25-27 - which was cool, but partly due to not wanting to deal with stupid hairdressers anymore.

Irony of ironies, now that I have finally worked out how to handle my hair people who meet me now often say how beautiful it is and how much they would like to have hair like mine(if only they knew!) Its not really hard just different. A little work could save loads of trauma!

If she's not old enough to help do her own hair, and its too much work for you, then you can teach her/figure out together what to do for when shes ready. And just wear it open occassionally. Otherwise not over shampooing is probably the most crucial thing because if you do that you have a brillo pad thats hard just to plait.

Sorry if this sounds preachy - as you can tell I have had a long hair-journey. I am pregnant at the moment and already wondering what kind of hair the baby will have!

Yes, the no poo method will work for children too; I also have a DD with very curly red hair! Before I found the Lorraine Massey book, I used to comb it/hack at it after her bath, then try to knock it into submission every morning before school and the result was we were both emotional wrecks going out the door. I never even comb it now after washing it with the conditioner (Tresemme works fine). She scrunches it and lets it dry naturally, then in the morning uses a scrunchie to tie it up without brushing. My DD wears her hair in longish layers, shorter around her face, where it's about shoulder length when dry, much longer if straightened out. It's parted casually at one side, but she pulls it back for the scrunchie. The things to avoid with curly hair are getting it cut while wet and combed out straight, and blunt cuts. Ideally, the hairdresser should cut each curl individually, not do the cutting layers held between the fingers thing. I used to have a fringe, but found that by about 8:30 am I looked like a woman with three sausages hanging down my forehead.

lol @ the three sausuages, math ... maybe I'd better just stick to longer layers around the face.

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Funny enough I'd say I've been following the curly girl method without even realising there was a name for it!

The biggest factors for me are no shampoo (in my case because of allergies) and getting a water softener (for the same reason). I always leave my hair to airdry. Cut every 8 weeks.

A heavy duty conditioner like Bumble and Bumble Creme de Coco conditioner works well for me, followed by leaving to dry naturally and then lightly running straighteners over the top (not to 'straighten' but to tame and de-fuzz). Result is silky. I tend to apply condioner, wrap hair in a warm towel and then go off to do something else, which means it gets left on for about an hour.

Aussie 3 minute miracle conditioner is quite good too, but the key for really dry frizzy hair sufferes, is to leave the conditioner on a very long time.

Bloss, Glad to hear it. I think its horrid when young children have load of chemicals in their hair.

Tresemme is good stuff, and reasonably cheap. Even if you dont go no poo look for stuuf thats 'moisturising' or 'nourishing'. I use to like herbal essences. Also really liked John Frieda's Brunnette stuff which smells lovely.

To comment on your plans for your daughther.

1. Less shampooing is definately of the good, try for 2 weeks between shampoos, but what you are really looking to do is only wash the hair with shampoo when its gone too sticky and greasy from products and from natural hair oil. Dont wash it just cos its messy or ttangly. In that case wet it and condition it and comb it through with conditioner, but dont wash with shampoo. If that takes one and a half weeks in your daugthers case so be it, smae if it takes a month. It wont be smelly if you rinse with conditioner instead.

1. Same for deep conditioning. I would save that for when hair needs aboost. Once a week, once every two weeks. I imagine for a little girl having stuff in your hair for half and hour is boring in hte extreme. You could use a deep conditioner here, something tthat comes in a pot - again tresemme do some nice stuff.

1. Use a regualr conditioner for detangling. Wet hair, run some conditioner through it so you can comb it. Never comb it/brush it when its dry. Really never. And dont get too fine toothed in the combing - trust me its not like straight hair combing it will not make it look better or be in better condition all you will acheive is fuzziness and breakage

1. If she gets dreads/burrs at the back when sleeping: Part her hair down the centre and tie into two princess leia snails each side for the night. Or do the pineabpple where you put it up high on the top of her head like a fountain. The aim is for it not to get shredded/tangled againsgt the pillow. Dont let her go to bed with wet/damp open hair it will just all muss up and she will wake up looking like Thing 1 from the cat in the hat. Cute but not really a look for school.

1. For ease put it back in a scrunchie. You might find wetting your hands a bit, or misting her hair slightly will let you smooth it back nicely in a way that it wont when its dry. This also lets fuzzed up hair recurl - some people call this refreshing your hair. So in the morning a curly head doesnt brush or comb her hair, she refreshes it by redefining the curl she has with a bit of water. Basically when its dry dont style it just pluck the odd stand into place.

1. maybe you can find a nice light leave in product to give her curls some definition. You put htis in when hair is wet then scrunch dry it. My hair sounds frizzier so what I would recommend would probably be too heavey for your girl, but you are loooking for sometjing like a lotion that you leave in your hair. If you have to blow dry use a diffuser attachment and a low heat setting and when you towel dry dont rub the hair, blot it so you keep the curls and avoid fuzz..

Mathanxiety sounds like she has it right. I know the non-combing seems strange at first. like you are neglecting her but it will work.

The Tresemme I use is Moisture Rich For Dry or Damaged Hair. It has panthenol, wheat protein, hydrolysed keratin, among a lot of other ingredients. For curl definition, I use a heavily diluted Tresemme gel that I scrunch through wet hair. If you use it straight from the bottle you get the brilliantine effect and very 'crisp' hair.

I also felt like the world's most neglectful mum for not combing DD's hair, but the screams in the morning were more than I could bear. The combination of flaming red hair, red eyes and tomato red face from the fits she used to have were what propelled me to find an alternative.