Primark - how on earth do they do it?

[unavailable]

Yesterday, I bought in Primark for the first time.

I have been in a few of their shops, but felt to overwelmed by all the stuff and chaos to do any more then leave again swiftly.

Anyway, I saw this really nice wool dress (lined)for £12!! I was very pleased with it, but am now a bit guilty that it may have been made by 5 year olds in some slave labour sweat shop in the far east - otherwise how on earth could their stuff be so cheap?

Are Primark any worse than other companies? Can I shop there guilt free or should my first purchase be my last?

"TNS Knitwear, which supplies some of Britain's most famous brands"

Seems like Primark aren't the only one's this company works with and that they only know about Primark after investigating their supply chain. Wonder who else they supply....

The shops have to sourece from somewhere

If everyone stopped buying there (unlikely but anyway) then the shops would have to address that wouldn't they, and source sustainably.

Now we can either say well that would be nice but nobody else does so why bother- or think well I will do my bit and maybe othrs will follow

It really depends on how you approach the question of responsibility

(Disclaimer: i'm no angel of this- big difference between knowing what I should do and doing it! never shop in Primark coz we haven't got one, but don't know ethical policy of where I do shop but will look now)

LaughingLil - if we didn't buy the clothes then companies in the west would have to find ways of paying workers in the East a decent wage, so that they don't feel the need to send their children to work in factories and so that they themselves can work reasonable hours for a decent wage and therefore be able to educate their children out of the poverty cycle. If the companies didn't have customers, they'd soon start doing sourcing their products differently.

If it's in the news of the world it must be true eh ?

But the point being that Primark's target audience is not generally very poor people, it's people with some money but not necessarily inteliigent, who will spend £200 on tat that is in fashion and then throw it away rather than a few quality items. You can try and educate them but good bloody luck.

Janeite, I support what you're saying and have never shopped in Primark because I had my suspicions about child labour. The link you provided was great - thanks.

I worked in the clothes industry for a few years and agree with Moondog - if anyone who thinks child labour is an acceptable price to pay (in any context) for a cheap top or trousers they need to see the realities of a garment factory.

In response to the op, the price of a garment unfortunately doesn't mean that it was produced ethically or by consenting adults working for a living wage and in good conditions. Just look at trainers for example. The working conditions and wages of the children sewing trainers that retailed for often over £100 were documented years ago, and I have absolutely no reason to believe that this practice is not still commonplace. It's just that companies have gotten better at denying it and launching 'official investigations' into working conditions etc when they're outed.

Your dress could have cost £112 from another high street store and unfortunately there's still no guarantee that it wasn't made using child labour.

Thanks WingAndAPrayer.

MrsArchie - I've been googling and am finding it really hard to find information, other than the first Telegraph article I linked to, about which companies are "more equal than others" as it were.

OhB - That News Of the World article, or the gist of it, is in most of the papers this week. I read it in The Guardian - will try and find it again.

here

I'm sure there must be some kind of organisation that certifies that items have been made ethically after random inspections at factories but I can't for the life of me recall the name of one. Unfortunately though, if such an organisation exists, I suspect that the cost of such inspections would be passed on to the consumer and would be reflected in higher prices, something that wouldn't go down well with consumers. The reason Primark is still doing relatively well in the days of consumer cutbacks (I hate the term 'credit crunch') is that people balance need with social conscience. My son needs some new jeans as he's outgrown the ones he's got on now but I can't afford to spend £20+ on a pair of jeans that might or might not last more than a few months following a growth spurt or boys being boys and ripping holes in the knees. Added to that, I have absolutely no way of knowing for definate that the £20+ jeans weren't made by a child the same age as my son in a sweatshop.

Can I just throw something further in for discussion?

Lets' pretend that as from tomorrow - everyone stops buying clothes that have been produced by or have any connection with, child labour.

Let's pretend that we, the whole of the west, say "we will not buy these clothes that have been made by child labour"

What do you imagine happening at that point? What do you think (REALLY think not really wish for!!!) will happen?

• This is genuine Q, btw, I am really interested to know the range of opinions and, more importantly, the range of solutions, real solutions.

A charity did an inspection on a factory in India that supplies Tesco, now I'm not quoting the proper figures because I can't remember. The workers were being paid £32 per month, but the living wage was £48 per month. Surely, with the average living wage being so low, these companies could afford to pay the proper amount. The add on cost to the consumer would be minimal. Or am I being naive?

This gives the figures that Coco is speaking of.

Hecate - good question. Except it's not just child labour that's the issue: it's adults being emplyed for figures that do not allow them to look after their children too.

I'm not trying to avoid answering your question but as of yet, I have not get any answers!

Thanks Janeite.

I'll shop elsewhere when I can afford to. I had to buy some new clothes the other day as 2 pairs of jeans (I own 3) had holes in that were showing my pants. I've had those jeans and worn them day in day out for about 2 years. One pair was from primark, (actually I think they both were).

For £24 I bought 2 pairs of jeans, 2 pairs of tracky bottoms and a jumper.

When I can afford it I'll buy everything from Sea Salt and Boden but I can't at the moment - would be interested if someone could find the cheapest ethical jeans so I can compare prices.

Lots of charity shops, but we're in a poorish area- so it's full of Primark & Tesco. If I lived in Marlow I'd buy from charity shops all the time.

Point being (don't think I made it very well), if I could afford to buy ethical clothes I would of course, but with a family of 5 to clothe, I have to look at the difference in cost.

sweaty betty ad is showing at the moment. I love their stuff, but can never afford it. Is it ethically made? How could I tell (if it was I would buy it in a sale over Primark if the price difference wasn't too huge).

HecateQueenOfGhosts - if people acted in the way you suggested I personally believe that it would mean the developing world takes a step backwards. In trading with countries where standards aren't perhaps as good as we expect them to be we are starting at the bottom and working our way up; in effect you force them to abide by your standards and conditions.

In the industrial revolution children and adults were employed in sometimes appalling conditions. Eventually standards were raised and conditions for people who at one time didn't have anything were raised to what they are now. Some people would say that there are still unacceptable living conditions and incidences of appalling deprivation in this country, but compared to 150 years ago we've come a long way.

Progress has to start somewhere.

Waht was the reference to news of the orld? IDid I miss something or was that bout this in general?

If the latter fwiw my source was not NOTW but the many presentations on industrials ethics we had during my degree Ethics module.

I don't read NOTW; it does however pay the rent so I will not be rude about it.

Hecate I imagine clothes would be sourced sustainably and ethically but prices would rocket, at least at the cheaper end because whilst most expensive shops do not practice great ethics I don't think cheap shops could maintain the prices at all.

I do think that if people are going to even think about this, then the advice we ere given by a charity in the field (can't remember who sorry ) is good: just buying elsewhere in a small number won't make any real impact. If everyt ime you buy something you ask the assistant abut the ethics invollved the assistants and their managers in turn will do the same and might satrt to question it.

There was a NOTW link further down the thread.

Glad I covered myself then- phew!

It's not even just about adult wages... it's working conditions as a whole, people forced to work extremely long hours in dangerous conditions on fear of unemployment. And whilst wages might not be feasible at a level we think fine, they should at the very minimum be of a level that allows access to basic healthcare and enough food.

What would happen to the people who currently make the clothes? Do you think that their wages would go up to equivelent of western wages (taking into consideration exchange rates and buying power of course), or do you think that they'd be out of work and starve to death? do you think companies would pay higher wages or do you think they'd use machines as the next cheapest option to mass produce clothes (long term), solving the problem of ever increasing labour costs?

I may be being naive but perhaps the big companies could work directly with the governments of these countries to find a way forward? The companies pay a workable wage, which would almost certainly still be less than minimum wage here so they'd still be saving money; the governments moniotor conditions more thoroughly, with funding from the companies. We in the west would pay a bit more but perhaps that would encourage most of us to buy a bit less and think a bit more.

That'd be bloody lovely, wouldn't it?

more chance of me waking up tomorrow and finding I'm a size 8 supermodel married to an elderly billionaire.