Les Parisiennes de Mamansnet: Emergency thread!!

[Papyrophile]

Bonjour Mariannes. Sans botemps, I've taken action; if I am one of many, I'll ask MNHQ to remove this.

Hi yes I go there just for the experience I’m a hardcore Francophile and it’s a good way to literally get a taste of all of France all in one place. Re the language, I can speak it courtesy of a childhood spent in North Africa, and a French gran. But having said that, at one point I really lost my confidence with it as I felt every time I opened my mouth it didn’t sound 100% authentic and betrayed my shameful Anglo Saxon heritage. It took and Australian family friend to basically say “ fuck it, if they don’t like it they can shove it” for me to turn my attitude around. I think that fear is specifically France related. I speak Spanish but a lot less well, and have never felt any judgment whatsoever in Spain.

I have a bit of the opposite issue, I sound convincingly French to the French but my level of French isn't that high. It's okay to get around but as they assume I'm a native they talk at the speed of light and I'm utterly clueless when they start integrating Verlan. Also, outside of Paris everyone gives me the side eye because I apparently have the Paris accent. It does seem to be a contentious thing though, even within France, the Bretons seem to be the only ones to still be actively resisting. Only found out recently that L'Occitane, the brand, was named after the Occitan region which has a language that used to be widely spoken in Southern France, it doesn't even have official status while it does in neighbouring regions in Spain and Italy while most speakers are inside of France. I know the overseas departments are also rigidly educated in 'Parisian' French, it's probably related to their very centralised power structure and I'm likely missing out a great deal of nuance and history in that supposition.

The Spanish are much more forgiving about their language, Italians too, they don't even mind if you speak Spanish to them. We, the Dutch, are probably the worst though, unless you speak it perfectly we'll immediately switch to English, highly demoralising for anyone trying to learn the language.

Interesting. i know I've not been to Paris for years but I remember them being pretty tolerant of my 40+ year old A Level French, just as long as I had a go and didn't mind them laughing when I got it wrong. Or maybe it's because, even when I was more fluent than I am now, there was no way you'd ever have mistaken me for a native speaker because my accent was too strong.

My favourite place to speak French (A level, 45 years ago) was Cote d'Ivoire where people cooed at my accent. I felt like Sacha Distel!

But my French vocab has improved a lot since then; I am pretty nifty at anything to do with boats in French. However, I'm told I have picked up an Occitan twang.

I counter the Dutch attitude by doggedly speaking French while the natives practice their English, and we usually reached an accommodation which involved politely helping to correct each other's most egregious errors.

I dunno Flo maybe it's more perception than reality. My French teachers were all French and they were pretty demanding about exacting a certain kind of French out of their students. Micro aggressions is a terrible term but closest I can think of in the sense that there's this specific wounded look if you're not up to scratch and butchering their language to their ears. It cuts like a parent's deep disappointment. Might also be a thing of the closer to native you are, the higher the expectation?

I like the idea of you having some sort of bawdy sailor accent thanks to the boating lingo Payro Determinedly carrying on as you were is absolutely the right way to counter the Dutch attitude. Although some here have just resorted to walking around with buttons that say they're learning Dutch and to please speak Dutch with them. Poor souls.

I definitely do NOT have a bawdy sailor accent @botemp and I am not about to buy a Breton either! The only word I know in Dutch is konkombre, which doesn't strike me as a useful starting point for a whole language and cultural immersion.

Interesting. I think what I have experienced is the discomfort of “ passing”’and then being found not to be French- it can be awkward for both parties. In Spain there’s no question of me being anything other than a foreigner. I’m sure your willingness to engage in French went a long way Flo. I’m a sucker for a southern French accent so well done on the twang Papyrophile.
I’m laughing at people going around with badges in Holland. I’m guessing they’d have a better chance of a positive response outside of Amsterdam.

Sorry Papyro I didn't mean to insinuate you actually have one, I just liked the idea that boating lingo unknowingly would lead you into a different accent. I think you mean komkommer, konkombre is just the French pronunciation with k's. You might make some friends with some farmers, maybe?

TheGander wrt not passing, I've mostly found that they become very complimentary. Then again I always do the very demure 'noooo, my French is terrible' thing when objectively it's probably pretty reasonable if I can be mistaken for a native far enough into a conversation. They then often assume I live in Paris, and upon finding out that isn't true either they become extra complimentary of my French skills I've just taken it as them being encouraging.

Interestingly enough, French speakers seem to be able to learn Dutch with the least detectable accent IME. Not sure how that happens, Germans would make more sense but they're the most obviously foreign sounding.

You are forgiven bo........ my dear mama did have something of a weakness for Bretons -- we sent about 30 to the charity shop when we cleared her drawers out!

I am terrible at accents other than my native, even though I have spent as long outside than inside my native country.
it has it benefits (sometimes) , but I agree with the general consensus that the French are not impressed at all with foreigners not having a perfect accent.

Did you witness the great nougat battle @TheGander ? Apparently there were fisticuffs between rival vendors.... or so I read in one of the UK papers.

😳 I want to hear the gossip

we have sunshine since yesterday!
I feel like getting pastel colours out.

😱. I’m heading there tomorrow. Only thing I’ve heard is it’s a lot less busy than previous years and the producers are really disappointed. I’ll report back.

Fell off the thread after getting hit by a lurgy - not anything nasty but I had to cancel plans which has really pissed me off. And then I injured my hand so it's all bandaged up. It means my wardrobe is currently based around a couple of pairs of pull-on trousers, some ankle boots that I can zip up with my good hand and some loafers that I'd nearly sent to the charity shop. Let's just say it has not converted me to capsule wardrobes although I will concede, it's very satisfying when I manage to rustle up a decent outfit. Please post all your travel and fashion reports.

I have been back and forth to the local hospital to get my cataracts fixed @flo ! But the posh frock shop did have their triennial archive sale so I found a rather nice woollen "gilet" at 80% off.

I've got cataracts too @Papyrophile - the optician cheerfully told me not to worry as they don't need any action yet and everyone our age gets them! How did the procedure go?

One was approaching the stage where it was about to bisect the vision in my left eye and prevent me driving, so I got referred and the surgeon also changed the lenses. I now have 20:20 vision for distance in both eyes and only need readers. The procedure is pretty fast, and doesn't hurt thanks to lots of local anaesthetics. Once that wears off, it's very sore until the next morning but your tears soothe it and you wake up to a bright new world. Check up on Tuesday. Only the cost brought tears, but if I had waited for the NHS it would have taken months.

They are pretty universal for oldsters, sadly! But I have reclaimed some smart sunnies from DH. And an ancient pair of glasses seem to have a fairly good reading Rx. It's not something to fret about @flo.

Thanks @Papyrophile - I've heard lots of positive reports about it and only one scary story which I won't repeat on here. I think I'd be a bit lost without my specs though - they're very much part of my look now. I know you can wear clear lenses but I'd feel a bit of a poser doing that. But then I am a poser so maybe!

I know what you mean @flo! The first thing I do every morning is put my glasses on, and now I have to unlearn that.

Flo and Papyro! Are you both ok now?

I came to report on my visit to the William Morris Gallery which has Women in Print exhibition. It is a lovely gallery and the exhibition, too. Is small, but being free and so on makes for a nice visit.
Here a couple of photos of the Women in print section, focused on Liberty prints and had a Mary Quant’s suit.

Here some images of the William Morris permanent section

I'm fine, thanks, red! Darn dog isn't, unfortunately.

My hand's still strapped up Red but otherwise I'm fine. I didn't know about the William Morris Gallery so thanks for the tip and the photos.

Sorry to hear about you dog @Papyrophile

She's on the mend now, thank you, Flo... the canine equivalent of D&V so a couple of days starvation, two more of dainty nibbling, and this morning she hoovered breakfast down!!

Oh, no, nothing more anxiety inducing than a doggo that doesn't want to eat. Glad to hear she's on the mend, Papyro, as are your eyes by the sound of it. Hope your hand is getting better too, Flo, or at least enough to enjoy a bit more of your wardrobe.

Am also curious about nougat fisticuffs at the Agriculture Salon. My imagination is probably a lot more exciting than the actual sticky mess of it. Hope you had an enjoyable time TheGander, think you lucked out with the weather too, I received some beach pics from friends in Biarritz where they had near thirty degree weather (sea, cold as ever though).

The William Morris gallery looks fun, new to me too. All the floral patterns very much seem to speak of the coming spring to me. It's coming through in bits now, though I'm not yet trusting enough that it won't just snap back into some winter weather but I'm excited for some newness. Not sure what newness but I'm in the mood for some anyhow.

For fans of Derry Girls, I started watching How to Get to Heaven from Belfast (Netflix) by the same creator. It's really enjoyable, similar feel in some sense, the characters, the music and nostalgia. Not very fashion related aside from a bit of prime Irish dressing downs of another character's fashion choices.

Oh, oh, and Charlotte Gainsbourg was on the Bella Freud podcast, it's probably one of the more intriguing episodes as they're quite similar in a way, famous parents, weird childhoods, and they even have a similar voice. They had a bit of a back and forth about accents between France and England to bring it back to this thread's recent conversation.