Vanity sizing

[Bruisername]

is it worse?

I’ve lost a bit of weight recently and back to my early 20s weight and more or less shape - 25 years on. Back then I was a 12/14

now I’m finding the sizing is haywire. In a lot of shops I’m a large but others a small for tops and bottoms 10/12 seem to fit

but today I had the weirdest which was a wool coat from John Lewis and the one that fitted was an 8. I’ve never been an 8 and in other brands I definitely wouldn’t have been

i look at my 15yo and she is a 4/6 and think in old money she’s an 8/10 but is it healthy to have the little numbers? Do teenagers aspire to be size 0 like they did in my teenage years?

and it makes ordering online hard because what do I pick size wise!

anyway rant over but I’d be interested to know if people think this has become more a thing and sizing is even less consistent across brands than even just 5 years ago

Clothes are massive. Ive lost 10 stone and am apparently a 8-10, this is what I buy

But Im a stone heavier, than when I was in my teens and in those days I was a 14-16 (80s). Im full of flabby rolls as well, but still apparently an 8-10.

No

A member of staff in a shoe shop once explained to me that the bigger sizes sell out first because they stock fewer of them. So they will be supplied with 50 size 5s, 30 size 6s, 10 size 7s and maybe even 1 size 8. So once that size 8 has gone, it's gone!

Numbers just an example of course

Are you particularly short? Or maybe your eyes haven't adjusted yet after such a big weight loss?

I do get tired of the 'everyone these days is a delusional heifer who thinks they are a size 10 but would actually be a size 16 in old money' that is often seen on MN

Using myself as an example: these leggings are a 10 (M&S). My top is an S from Uniqlo. I used to be 12 (as above) because I have wide hips for my frame. However I can't believe I would have been near the top end of the female weight scale in the 80s.

Yes. People are much bigger now and it's not due to obesity (although obesity is still a problem). People have more lean body mass now than they did decades ago due to the factors you mentioned. It's natural to expect clothes sizes to be bigger now because of this. Although, I wish clothes sizes were more consistent and not vary so depending on the brand.

But what difference does it make? Why the angst? You want your clothes labels to say size 16 and you’d be happy? So a size 16 lady needs to wear a size 22? And a 22 needs a 28? This would please you?

You're reading rather a lot into a post that wasnt there, why is this?

Why the need for bitchy comments about eyes, what is that even meant to mean?

Because every time someone posts about vanity sizing on MN you get people falling over themselves to say how big clothes are these days. Admittedly on this thread it has been balanced by people explaining that people's frames have also grown.

The eye thing wasn't meant to be bitchy - 10 stone is a huge and very impressive weight loss and I have heard that sometimes people find it hard to adjust to 'seeing' their new size at first

yes! I was a teenager in the 70’s. I weighed 8 st and had to buy size 12 or 14 clothes from Chelsea Girl. A size 12 was 34” bust, 24” waist and because my waist was a “ massive” 26” if I was buying fitted stuff it had to be a size 14.
50 years on and 3 children later, i’m 37-30-37, 91/2 stone and fitting into size 10 or 12’s!
Next are the worst, a linen top I bought this summer is a size 8 and measures 38” across the bust. There weren’t many size 8’s around in clothing in the 70’s

i guess it’s not necessarily bad - culturally if a size 6 is considered skinny then the fact it’s now an old 10 is better?

I suppose I find it odd as, like with shoe sizes, I expect sizes to represent something specific. European sizes do don’t they?

Clothes are larger, its just a fact, its not a secret, retail has been open about it.

No one has to 'fall over themselves' to say it, its just as it is.

Well this is the problem, you have no where to go at the lower end, had to take back 2 tops in Sainsburys, tried the 10, then tried the 8, no size 6s and to be honest I think it still would have been too big.

I bought some children's shirts in Asda the other day, at least its cheaper

Next I find enormous as you say and that surprised me

What is frustrating as OP says is the lack of consistency, OH can just buy a waist and leg length and fits perfect every single time in every single shop, no variation in sizes.

Me, I have to order several sizes and I know I dont have a size 8 or 10 waist, but thats what I need to buy. I spend half my time sending things back

I had a friend at uni, very petite, 5 foot nothing, who used to wear a topshop size 6. I wonder where people that size shop now, as I was at least two sizes bigger at the time but have some clothing in a size 6 now that fits

Yes, I am nowhere near a size where I'd struggle to find clothes small enough, I would just like to see consistency in sizing or better still, for women's clothes to be sold by measurement - so rather than trying to guess whether you need a '14' or a '12' or a '10', you see '30 inch waist' and as long as you know your waist size it will be clear whether it will fit.

Sizing for women in this country is all over the place. When I was in my 20s, it was so easy to walk into a shop, grab a size 8 in anything and I knew it would fit. Can't do that now. It drives me insane

Perhaps the inconsistency is the issue more than anything - but I think it stems from some shops wanting to do vanity sizing and others sticking to something more generic

although I do remember trying trousers on in next 20 years ago and the 10 was massive the 12 way too small and the 14 fit

My husband takes a size 12 and moans that a modern size 12 is a usually a size too small and he has to go up to a 13. His old size 12 shoes still fit, so his feet haven’t changed.

Vanity sizing in reverse?

Inconsistency sure, if you’ve bought struggle with that, I don’t, over the few brands I tend to buy. They are all fairly similar. But whinging as clothes sizes are bigger than 40 or 50 years ago and want them to be the same size. Who cares, as long as it fits and everyone can buy what they need.

I find the emotion and gatekeeping about clothes sizes really depressing. Also a lot of people just don't understand ease or how drape affects sizing.

While I agree that there is inconsistent sizing (and poor quality control) that's not always what's going on. Just because you can get into a size 8 top doesn't mean you're wearing it how the designer intended - lots of clothes are deliberately designed to be very loose.

I make my own clothes so I'm used to looking at patterns which often include a table with, for each size, both size of garment in cm and the also suggested (eg) waist circumference to wear that size and get the intended look. Some stretchy garments have negative ease where you're meant to make the size of the clothing less than your body.

I really recommend getting to understand a bit about garment construction if you're interested in clothes. I find it takes a lot of the weird emotion out of it.

Clothes draping aside, clothes sizes have undoubtedly become more generous & it is more obvious in the more expensive brands. I can confidently find small clothes in Zara & H&M, I seldom bother with Poetry, Cos, Other Stores & OliverBonas because they cut so large.

I was 8 -10 in the 80s & 90s and am now a 6-8 - but around half a stone heavier than my pre childbearing years. This thread shows this is a pretty general experience.

I do agree younger people tend to be bigger built - my small size is undoubtedly a throw back to impoverished ancestors- so sizes changing to reflect that is probably fair enough.

I can’t say I feel strong emotion on the issue - irritation maybe?

I have no emotional attachment to clothes sizes as I am a lot taller than my female family members and recognise I’m always going to have a bigger size because I’m a bigger person.

this thread was more to start a conversation than to have a whinge tbh

100% this. The sizing we use has a context. Really you want whatever a “Medium” is (10/12?) to be whatever the average is across the population. Then obviously “small” would be smaller than average etc etc.

We should probably do ourselves a favour and size things using actual measurements, but as we use categories instead, it seems sensible that the parameters of them have changed as people’s bodies have changed on a population level.

Just buy the one that fits.

But why are you irritated? What difference does it make that clothes and the population are bigger now than forty or fifty years ago?

Yes this technically makes sense but

A) it's incredibly inconvenient (and expensive, particularly if ordering online) to have to order multiple sizes of everything because you've got no idea if it will fit. Even more so if you buy second hand (vinted etc) which is hailed as the alternative to fast fashion

B) what happens to the really small people when everything is sized up? I am overweight by at least a stone with big boobs. I "should" be about a 12. Yet in some shops the vanity sizing is so ridiculous I'm in the absolute smallest sizes - I had to size down 3 times when buying a dress and a jumper from George recently, the XS 6-8 size. So what on earth are all the people who are a healthy weight, let alone the very slim, supposed to wear?

I don't care about the number at all, I do care when the smallest size of something doesn't fit me.