First fillers and now Botox

[GettingStuffed]

So we've had fillers not dissolving and migrating.
Now we have Botox atrophying facial muscles meaning as soon a you stop having them down. The worst I've heard of in in people who've been having it for years ending up with basically skin on skull as their muscles are so small. I've also seen cases of people going blind and one poor woman who can't walk properly due to the neurological damage that was done to her by her injector.

Secondly we all know that Botox is a derivative of botulism but I before you didn't know you could catch it from Botox. It appears that these cases are all known about but has been put down to the person delivering it not knowing what they were doing but some if these cases were done by qualified practitioners. Is not having wrinkles worth the risk?

Imo no, not worth the risk. A few lines doesn't bother me at all.

I’ve known this for years it’s not new information- people start with Botox but paralysing muscles leads to volume loss so filler is then needed it just becomes hugely expensive and not without risk

It really should be obvious that these things aren't consequence free. We are ageing all the time. How could doing something to your muscles or tissue in your face result in them ever going back to how it was before you did that?

Who could have thought that injecting your face with weird shit to counteract natural processes could be risky? It boggles me how normal it's become, especially when most people don't look great on it, or at least it's a very specific look that some may like but doesn't look like humans are meant to look. Definitely not worth the risk/effort/expense and just awful how it's taken up by some as young as their 20s who definitely do not need such interventions. Shows how little it's about looks really and how much its about self-confidence etc.

I have two big grooves (no other word for it really!) between my eyes from all the frowning I do. I have been told so many times to get botox. I daren't. My guts tell me to avoid it.

I am avoiding fillers and Botox. It’s hard because a lot of people around me use it so it does feel like there’s pressure to conform. But for me I’m risk avoidant.

Im not going to say I’m not conscious of my image. I do spend money on things that make me feel better but only where I feel those are lower risk - a LED mask, good skincare (Vitamin C, Retinol, SPF), supplements. I get my hair cut nicely and look after it. And I eat well and exercise. That’s it for me, I’m too nervous of more invasive treatments. I’m only in my 30s but I feel like the millennials will be the first generation to start with Botox/fillers in their 20s and we’ll see the real long term impacts of use over decades.

So glad I never got fillers! So many issues people have with them, not to mention the horrifying experiences people have with ‘dissolvers’ (a misnomer as ‘dissolving’ filler is not what these products were designed to do).

I tried botox once (11s) and liked it – although do likewise have reservations about potential side effects and how safe (or otherwise) it is.

I think the people administering this stuff heavily downplay the potential complications (many of which are very common), and there is definitely a wild west attitude of – fuck it, make a buck now while it’s popular. Customers (difficult to use the medical term ‘patients’ when the hippocratic oath is nowhere in evidence) are basically treated as guinea pigs / cash cows.

I have Botox for migraines as I have nerve damage in my face, mine is done by a qualified doctor and I can still move my eyebrows just not as much, so the muscles aren’t completely frozen. I suspect the issue with muscle atrophy would apply to the 20yr olds who go for the completely frozen look.

Where have you read this about Botox?
I’ve always been a bit cautious of using it.

It's literally poison. I can't believe people pay to have it injected into their faces, just to avoid lines.

Do you have any links for this? I am currently researching for my first use of it.

I had years of botox for migraine under neurology. 42 injections through my face, scalp, neck and shoulders.

I now have botox in my masseters to help with my teeth grinding as my teeth are so damaged I'm on the tipping point of losing the front teeth.

So far no atrophy, but I guess time will tell.

Where's the link to the evidence of the Botox leaving the muscle permanently atrophied please?

The effect on muscles. long term, is simply not discussed. It should be.

There are studies on botox and atrophy. The jury is still out on it. It is reversible though in the rare case that it may happen.

I've not read anything for either side of the argument that I 100% agree with. I tell all of my clients every single risk involved, I take a complete medical history and consent.
I will always refuse a treatment that I don't believe is necessary and my clients aren't " cash cows" to address a pp.

I think a lot of issues surrounding the overuse of botox largely comes from being unregulated. I'm strict on dosage, frequency and constantly assess my returning clients as if they don't need it. I don't do it. It's that simple.
The same can't be said for people who quite frankly shouldn't be administering prescription medication (non-medics).
I have my registration ( in my day to day healthcare job) to consider hence why I'm very aware and stringent on everything surrounding aesthetics.

Also, as a sidenote muscular atrophy is a natural part of aging.
It's going to happen regardless of botox use.

I'm 48 , it hasn't occurred to me to have Botox, or lips done. I'm aware of what the OP has said too.
I usually couldn't care, but in RL I am now seeing 'girls' in their early 20s with lip fillers, the eyebrow tattoo thing, and very possibly Botox.
It's making them look at least 10 years older than they are! Look the same as 40 year old women trying to look young!
That's what saddens me. Over 40 crack on, whatever... But 20s? Nooooo!

I don't think eyebrow tattooing is the same TBH. I had mine done and I wish I had done it years earlier rather than spending so much time drawing on eyebrows that looked crap!
My eyebrow hair is so pale

Just re-read this.
There is no documented case (as far as I'm aware) of botox and a permanent loss of sight.

I think you may be confusing this with filler. Specifically tear trough filler.
This is a potential risk of that filler.
It is why I won't offer it despite being trained to.
I wouldn't have it myself due to the risks, so I would it would be hypocritical to offer it.

Any decent aesthetics practitioner will discuss at length potential side effects and risks. If they don't... find another.
For those on this thread that do have aesthetics treatments or are considering it.
Always go to someone who is medically trained and on a register. GMC, HCPC, NMC etc and don't be afraid to ask if they are. I gladly give my registration details over if I'm asked.

I've also seen cases of people going blind

Can you please provide links to these cases where people have gone blind through Botox as I have looked and cannot find anything?

I asked Google's AI. It said:

No, there are no documented cases of Botox causing blindness. Botox is a neurotoxin that paralyzes facial muscles, and is not made of collagen or silicone. Blindness after facial injections is extremely rare, and even less common after Botox injections.

However, there are some risks associated with Botox injections near the eyes, including:

Vision problems: Botox injections can temporarily cause blurred or double vision. Most vision issues resolve on their own.

Vascular blindness: This can occur in the glabella area, which is between the eyebrows and above the nose.

Droopy eyelids: This can happen if Botox is injected by an untrained person.

I haven't had any tweakments of any kind, though I understand why people do. Most of my friends have been Botoxing and having little bits of filler since their late forties: they do look better than me! My brother recently had an eyelid lift - very subtle and effective. I've got jowls now, which I find quite disfiguring, and would probably get a lift done if I could afford to.

Agree with the concerns for women starting these treatments in their twenties. They obviously don't need to look younger, and they're the trial cohort as nobody knows the effects of injecting stuff into your face for 40 years continuously.

I think that, once you're past your mid-fifties, you may as well have a go if you're minded and have the money - your infrastructure's already deteriorating naturally, and you might place a high value on appearing to age more slowly for a couple of decades.

But the AI is just regurgitating blog posts and info from practitioner websites.

It’s not in any way reliable content.

I've had botox. I really liked it! It lifted my eyebrows slightly and got rid of my hooded eyelid. I only started having it at 57.

I've got friends who've been having it for 25 years with none of these issues that you describe.

Nor is the OP.

Oh, please get a grip. Do you know how much Botox you'd need to inject and over a long time period to cause all your facial muscles to atrophy to that extent? It wears off anyway and the muscle returns to its usual function, hence the need for injections every few months.

It's good to ask AI but it needs to be taken with a pinch of salt. There was a post recently saying cane corsos were banned in the XL bully ban because of AI. Also, see below.

But botox isn't (shouldn't be) usually injected below the eyes unless for teeth grinding. It is forehead, glabella and crows feet so it is very unlikely someone's full facial muscles atrophied to the point they were 'skin on skull'. It does make sense that if a muscle isn't used at all for a long time, it would atrophy. However Botox done properly should not stop movement. The trope of the fully frozen face like on Absolutley Fabulous isn't accurate. There was a big consultation recently and there will be a clamp down on the industry and training etc which can only be a good thing. Botox has been around since the 70s but definitely should be administered by trained and experienced people in a proper surrounding.