Les Parisiennes des Mamansnet: It's French charm, you know, beheaded people, red wine and blood all over the place - it's romantic, it's normal.

[botemp]

Lovers of Parisian style and fashion with a conscious mindset and lots of chatter in between.

Previous Thread

@andIsaid MNers definitely can be, although it's becoming vanishingly rare these days, alas, I'll stop now before I complain too much of what this place is becoming...

Micro, tricky, so I'll say this, as admirable as the whole attitude of fuck flattering is, realistically it only works in two scenarios; clothes are like food is like fuel to some, and they legitimately just don't care about clothes in any way, or you find clothes that have some sort of interest and personality that trumps ideas of 'right' proportions, good taste and other ideals of dressing that can all feel a bit petit bourgeois.

You seem to be stuck in a liminal space with this skirt, it's not got enough presence of its own to overcome the feeling of eurgh it delivers in the mirror and I'm not sure how helpful a, 'just style it out' message is here. So perhaps reframe it as the issue is not how it makes you look unnecessarily wide but that it makes you look uninterested. Nothing wrong with the food is fuel types but if you're a gourmand, you rightfully don't want to be mistaken for something you're not. It's okay to be a snob about some things as they relate to yourself.

"Flattering" isn't my concern but I think very full skirts like that need something short and boxy which stops at or just above the waist. The white blouse is too long. It's flattening the skirt. The jacket. is ok but I think the Baum und Pferdgarten or Casey Casey jackets are a better shape. The blouse would work if it were shorter.

This Baum und Pferdgarten white shirt goes with every skirt I own.
Baum und Pferdgarten shirt

I have the Bebeth jacket in blue jacquard and black jacquard and they go with almost every dress.
Baum und Pferdgarten Bebeth jacket
Bebeth brown jacket

This is also perfect for that shape and is so wearable.
Casey Casey Juliette jacket.

I don't own this but it's another perfect example
Cabbages & Roses jacket

Ah, yes, flattering - I think the trouble is it's a very emotive word that depends on cultural and social perceptions. I have been guilty of using it, but the description of "wide" is definitely better. If everything in your outfit is loose, your silhouette will appear loose, as IHaveNever says, something boxy and more cropped will contrast with the skirt more. I find full skirts very hard to style as I don't like the look on me - I'm very straight up and down. I go for slimmer silhouettes, a-line, bias cut, straight etc.

@botemp I'm definitely not in the food as fuel or clothes just to keep you warm category! I take great enjoyment in both 😁.

Yeah, me too, quirky, I am particular about clothes and food and it's annoying for others (the food, mostly) but it's not something I'm always willing to compromise on.

Speaking of lack of compromise, I think it also doesn't help that 'flattering' on here is wielded so combatively between two camps of, it's the only correct way to dress and the opposition of I'm so above you other silly little women caring about how they look, stop dressing for men dress for yourself, blah blah. When really most people just mean I like the way it looks on me when they say flattering, for a myriad of complex and less so reasons, none particularly deep, and don't need an all out thread war whenever they innocently express it as such. Just leave people to dress as they like.

@botemp 😄 I agree, both about the threads on here and food and clothes. I think a love of food and clothes is parisienne (not sure that's feminine). My love of good food probably comes from my dad, but he is an absolute francophile. I'm an adventurous eater, but fussy about quality.

Microbius I have a Sofie d'Hoore skirt in a similar style, which comes to just on my knee. I would have preferred it to be longer, but I still love it and it was a £49.50 bargain from an Oxfam shop.

It makes my bottom half look wide, when it's not, as you find, but I wear it with quite a tight top whether a jacket or a blouse, and think it looks good overall. I love the swishiness of the lovely fine fabric, and the unusual (these days) style.

I have this Sofie D'Hoore skirt which I should wear more often than I do. It's about mid calf. I think I'd prefer if it were wider, like the Casey Casey skirt.

Casey Casey ikat skirt

Thanks everyone! I like the Casey Casey styling with a short double layer. Maybe I should just wait for the spring and I'll find my inspiration in the swishing-ness and brightness when the weather changes.

HOWEVER I find the styling of a long and wide top over a very full longish skirt intriguing (can't find a good example easily but you know what I mean). I don't think it's the "food is for eating, clothes is for wearing" vibe. I think there is something Japanese about it, and I have a sense I saw it amongst some Comme des Garçons crowd

There's several examples here of long tops over full skirts.

CFCL Skirts
Kindred of Ireland parachute skirt
Kindred of Ireland

Hmm, no, in terms of Japanese aesthetics it's much more wholesome young mum than CdG, the latter is much more linear. You see a lot of the wholesome young mum thing in Japanese sewing books like this one. The style has a specific name in Japanese but I always forget it.

My mum had policies when buy clothes which I always loved as part of her quirk but now appreciate for its wisdom.

Buy once and buy well was the top of her list. Within that her criteria included how it feels on, as in, inside seams, silky, scratchy, cut and so on (#1 for her); how does it sit on, as in, does it require fixing/adjusting/watching how you sit or stand etc (#2), and lastly, how does it look on you! For this part of the evaluation she always started with the face (for tops clearly) and then the cut. If the colour did not suit, it was out no matter how stunning.

She really dressed entirely for herself in terms of her physical feeling in the garments and her artistic pleasure in the clothes themselves. How she looked to the world was also very important but it was the last, rather than first piece of the puzzle.

I like "policies". But I also find it boring when people always look the same as in they found a kind of dressing that they find "flattering" whatever this means and stick to it. For instance, I know I look good in pencil skirt and A-line skirts with narrow hips. But I don't want forever only to wear those kinds of skirts.
Anyway.

Bo, what does linear mean in relation to CdG clothes - or any clothes?

Those 'policies' are pretty universal, no? Maybe a different weighing of priorities and that'll probably change with circumstances as well.

Micro, linear is quite literal here, CdG's entire work is obsessed with lines, the diffusion brands are more litteral, folds, quite flat, graphic and almost like line drawings that give a two dimensional quality. The main brand which is highly conceptual is lines sculpted into three dimensions. At first sight I wouldn't blame anyone thinking it's all about volume and awkward proportions but once you see the lines, they're everywhere.

@quirkychick @Redandblue11 @botemp @Floisme

Thank you for the warm welcome.. Aologies for delay in replying - the weekend was a lot busier than I expected.. Really appreciate your questions and your advice.

Thanks botemp for the news that no special wardrobe is needed and the tip about leaving the planning until very near to the date.. The advice about how to manage in touristy areas also very welcome

Floisme - thank you for sharing your experiences, useful to know that 'going to dinner clothes' aren't necessary.. I'll definitely make sure I'll be smiling and using my very limited French on anyone in a Oaris shop 🙂.. I am planning to visit the Louvre and woukd love to see the couture exhibition.. I promise to report back, but feel, after reading the whole thread, that I am a complete amateur compared with all the wonderful couture expertise on this thread - so I will probably disappoint in terms of detail!

Thank you all again

Ah, I thought we'd scared you off 🫣

Yes, bonjours are very necessary, in the more intimate independent shops you'll need to bonjour every employee individually. Security guards at larger stores as well.

If you're headed to the Louvre book your tickets well in advance. It's very busy, especially at the weekend, even with pre-booked tickets you'll spend quite a lot of time getting in and waiting in line and the French do not queue well. On Monday all museums are closed and on Sunday it's only the shops in the Marais and the large department stores that are open, Les Puces is also open but a bit of a trip. Finding restaurants that are open on Sunday can also be a bit of a challenge depending on area.

Don't worry about detailed descriptions of the couture exhibition, pictures are always welcome 🙂

Nicholson & Nicholson is a Japanese brand that does big skirts and trousers, shown worn with big tops:

nicholsonandnicholson.jp

I bought a skirt by them recently.

@PoppySeedBagelRedux I like those looks. They look great on others, but I never feel myself when I go for loose top and bottom. I suppose like @botemp said I feel I look uninterested in the clothes, I'm wearing - which isn't me. I like functional clothes, but have a tendency to a little drama (only in clothes, I dislike it in life).

@microbius

I am like you then - love a little drama in clothes.

I the with the large volume clothes on top and bottom one needs to be slim.

Apologies for my absence, I had some unwelcome and distracting health news. It could have been a whole lot worse and I'm choosing to feel lucky but I haven't had the head space recently for S&B-type moaniness (the board as a whole, not this thread).

I'm also sorry I missed the 'flattering' discussion. I don't think it's any secret that I used to be a fervent believer in 'flattering' / 'wearing what suits you' etc. I gave it up largely because I was developing a really negative, hyper-self critical mindset. I'm not saying it's total nonsense and maybe there are some people who can just pick out the sensible stuff and leave the rest but it wasn't doing me any good. It's too engrained now for me to ever be free of it - I'm never going to wear short sleeves even though my arms are, objectively, perfectly fine - but I can change how I talk about it so I try hard not to say 'flattering' and I've gone back to a simple 'like' or 'don't like'.

Also, I was bored. As @microbius says, I might well look best in a knee length, A line skirt or gentle flares but that doesn't mean I want to wear them every day. Getting dressed is one of the rare activities in life where you can take risks without suffering too many serious consequences. As far as I'm concerned, if it's not fun, it's not worth it, and getting it wrong sometimes is part of the fun.

All that said, there are still things I like and things I don't. I can picture myself coming around to the pic of the full skirt and full blouse but I don't think I'll ever like the second pic, of the pleated skirt and jacket with the standup collar - it reminds me a bit too much of that Kim Jong Un for Margaret Howell jacket from a couple of years ago.

Flo. I do hope it's something that can be sorted out, and which will disappear into the rear view mirror. Sending hugs and support.

from me too @Floisme I hope you have better health news soon.

I agree with what you say about flattering and having fun with clothes. It took me a long time to understand flattering as a subjective judgement, rather than being able to explain how clothes looked in combination. I think wearing something "challenging" can add interest to an outfit, I'm thinking of Prada, who particularly plays with ideas of taste.

and from me too.

Flo I was wondering where you and your sharp and to the point words where.
I wish that whatever it is, is only temporary ans that can be fixed.

I am afraid I have nothing to contribute right now.

💐from me too

💐from me @Floisme

Nothing to report from me. A chambray shirt purchased from Sézane’s valentines release. Some successful jeans purchases (M&S and Levi’s via Vinted). That’s it. I need to replace the lining in my Mac before spring.