Size inclusivity or not

[D20]

I was going to post this the other day after seeing an article about Rixo but couldn’t think how to word it without it causing offence. It seems to have reared its head again with the limited edition M&S collection out today only going up to a size 18. Do brands owe us size inclusivity?

I’ll say again that I mean no offence I just wondered how inclusive should a brand be and picked Rixo because it’s not a high street brand and M&S because it is - does this make a difference?

Looking at the % who are each size isn’t the same as what % of clothes are purchased though. I buy more clothes when I’m slimmer as everything looks nice on. I presume that trend carries on up the sizing.

So I think they’re just making what sells best. I don’t think they owe anyone anything. You could argue about tall people etc too.

Economically, it's vastly more expensive to make clothing for larger sizes. The pattern layout on the fabric stack is much less efficient, so there's a pile more wastage, before the manufacturer even begins sewing.

Plus you have the complication of pricing. A garment in size 30 is expected to be the exact same rrp as the same garment in size 8, despite the huge disparity in costs to make. That's partly why you see special plus size collections, rather than a design being extended into plus sizes.

Also proportions change. Apple, pear shapes are much more extreme as size increases. It gets complicated very quickly. It's why so many plus size ranges are made in stretch fabrics - they don't need to be tailored to fit.

I agree. An M&S 18 would be a 20 or even 22 in Reiss, if they did those sizes, which they don't.

The apples/pears comment is a good point. Also women of different ages and ethnicities have fat concentrated in different places, and as you go up the clothing sizes these differences increase exponentially. So a single size 10 garment might (more or less) fit a 48 year old white woman and a 25 year old black woman. But the same is less likely to be true in size 24.
Therefore even if there are equal numbers of size 6 and size 22 women out there, you won't sell the same numbers of a single item as the fit will be poor for more of the size 22 women.

Look at model Tess Holliday and singer Lizzo. TH carries a lot of weight in her arms and legs and is very short waisted. Lizzo has a much longer body and I think is taller, so her weight is distributed differently.
There's a blogger called glitterandlasers, who is an extreme pear shape.
I genuinely do not see how any one clothing brand could cater perfectly to all 3 of these ladies.

Compare to smaller sizes. Beyonce, Jennifer Lawrence and Goldie Hawn. All different body types but we're they the same dress size, I bet all 3 could wear the same outfit. They'd maybe not suit it or like it, but it would fit them, more or less.

Had a look at the Sienna range and it's mainly clothes to suit a slim small frame like sienna's imo. I'm 12/14 and I don't think most of it would suit me

It's a commercial nightmare to try and do a vast array of sizing.

Initial samples are done in a 12 then are graded down and up from there. Simple grading won't work for more than a couple of sizes. So you need another pattern for bigger sizes - which usually make more accommodations so it becomes a different fit/style at a bigger size.

Cost wise it is vastly more expensive - easily x3/4 to do plus sizes - so retailers can't charge x3/4 the price for bigger sizes so are massively disincentivised to offer garments with much lower margins.

It's so hard as brands want to do it - but can't make any money on it.

I popped in to M&S to see the rest of the Sienna collaboration in the flesh especially the little floral blouse and between that blouse and the broderie button blouse the smallest size available was a fourteen so just maybe M and S could forecast that the bigger sizes wouldn’t seek well. I checked the website yesterday to look at the broderie blouse and there were lots of the larger sizes and the smaller sizes were sold out too.

Same here - it’s crazy. I bought some Next trousers in an 8 recently and only did that because I know how huge Next can be ( In old money I would have been a 12), and they were ridiculously big! I refused to buy a 6 but it made me think what do people do when they really are an 8? Go for a 4?