Night time retainer for teeth

[AllstarFacilier]

Sorry, I’ve posted this here for beauty but I’ve got no idea which forum it should go into.

My daughter must put pressure on her retainer at night. She wears it to keep her teeth from shifting after having her braces removed. She’s had them off for about 18 months, and has had to buy three new retainers at £100 a go. Is there anywhere we can buy these for cheaper, that are intended for keeping teeth from moving? I’ve found some sites on line but I’d rather go with recommendations than chose something cheap that doesn’t fit well or do the job.

Does it break then?
My dds has lasted a few years without breaking once

I’ve no experience of the retainer situation, apart from my daughter who will be getting hers at her next appointment. When we were last there her orthodontist showed us what the retainer looked like and it was pretty much the same, but thinner, as the guard I have for grinding my teeth.

If she’s causing damage, I wonder if she could get one for grinding instead as they seem to be thicker and will probably withstand the pressure. I’ve had mine since December and it’s still intact. That’s assuming the one for grinding will keep the teeth in place too, though I can’t see why it wouldn’t.

My orthodontist does a thicker retainer for people who grind their teeth - like me.

it costs the same (£100), but I've not broken the thicker plastic ones at all.

After forking out the (frankly criminally extortionate!) price of £280 to the orthodontist last year, for both my kids’ worn out night retainers, next time they wear out,we’ll be trying the Opro Night Guard.
It looks like it’ll do the job (made for bruxism but should keep straightened teeth in place) and as it’s thicker,will hopefully be more robust.
At £20,it’s worth a try imo.

Retainers need to be VERY accurately fitting to stop movement. Frankly taking an impresssion yourself , posting it and getting an appliance made for grinding or sports will NOT retain the teeth where they should be. Moreover a poorly designed,adjusted grinding appliance can cause big problems in itself.

If the retainers keep breaking and your child is sensible how they clean and take them in and out (cold water , not hot , no bleach or steradent type substances and take out both sides at once not one side then the other) then you can ask for them to be made in thicker material which will last longer.

Their fixed braces have been off for 3 and 2 years respectively (they’re both at Uni now,not youngsters). They’ve used and cleaned their night retainers properly and consistently and in that time,have had two sets each,costing over £500. That is a ridiculous cost to have to keep repeating,(on top of the initial £6K for their fixed braces) and I’d love to know what profit margin the orthodontist has on the night retainers.
They’re a thin bit of ?acrylic that probably costs pence to make in minutes on a machine,albeit in a lab,(not at the orthodontist) but someone’s making a good profit,aren’t they?
I obviously wouldn’t use a sports mouth guard (that’d be somewhat uncomfortable to sleep in,no?) but at £20,we will be trying the night guard and periodically trying the old retainers,to check for movement.
Thanks for the tip about asking for a thicker material though,that’s good to know and a shame our orthodontist didn’t mention that. Should I be flush enough to ever line the orthodontist’s pockets again,I’ll do just that,thank you.👍🏼

Thanks, I’ll look into the ones named next time I need them. It’s snapped after a few months, or cracked really - hasn’t fully snapped, but we were told it needed replacing and charged £100 for it. We didn’t think she friended her teeth, but they said that’s why it looked like it had cracked. It could add up if it keeps happening, so I would like to find something cheaper especially with two kids needing them.

The orthodontists surgery , per room , will cost around £200 an hour to run.
The retainers have to be made at a DAMAS registered laboratory by a technician who will have spent a minimum of five years to be trained and more if they are a specialist orthodontic technician.

Taking accurate impressions is an art it takes a long time to learn , accurate impressions are particularly important in a retainer that has to include all teeth with no airblows or bits pulled or missing. The impressions then have to be cast up quickly so they don't distort .

If the retainers are made with an impression that is sent to a lab, a lab technician will cast up the model into plaster , allow it to set and trim the plaster . Once it is set a pull down machine is used then the retainers are trimmed and finished by hand . A certificate has to be supplied as retainers are classed as a medical appliance and the manufacture of them is heavily regulated to ensure they are safe. The lab has to be registered and inspected with associated costs.

The laboratory fees vary from lab to lab and complexity of retainer. However a set of very simple retainers will start with a lab fee of £70 in a cheap lab.

Dentistry is very expensive to provide , highly regulated at all levels with associated costs.

However teeth moving , needing new orthodontic work is even more expensive.

Ours are £100 per set as well. They've also had fixed retainers put in to prevent as much movement too. Is this something worth looking into?

Fixed retainers only stop front teeth moving. Most often you have them in conjunction with removable retainers as some teeth want to relapse so quickly you want to "belt and braces " them.

I think it's only their front teeth that needed sorting as their physical retainers are nothing like the ones I have post Invisalign

I don’t doubt it’s a process with several stages (except ours were done from a digital scan,that definitely took little skill) or that dentistry is expensive to provide, or that orthodontic work is more expensive (obviously🙄) than night retainers BUT we will still try the Opro because it’s not much to lose and if it works,(using the retainers to check) it’ll be a massive saving. And I won’t shed any tears for the orthodontist or lab’s lost income.

Digital scan actually does take quite a lot of skill and training , the scanner costs £20,000 to £70,000 , the software has a licence that costs a few hundred a month , the lab also has to have a 3d printer, receiver for scans and soft wear. The model is then 3 d printed and the retainer made on that. Digital impressions are now being used more as , when done well, they do not have the problems of distortion, airblows, thermal changes and drying out that impressions can have.

Compare all of that to someone untrained , taking impressions and sending to a lab to have a mouth guard , rather than a retainer made . A mouth guard has a different purpose and can cause problems wearing at night.

To put into context , many years ago as a dental student it took around 20 goes for me to take my first half way decent impression. The person who was practicing on me 26 goes.

At least , hopefully , this has dispelled some of the "it only costs pennies" misapprehensions.

@Lollygaggle speaks so much sense. I despair at the “I want dentistry on the NHS” followed by a complete lack of responsibility to maintain the work or prevent new work being needed.

I wouldn’t use a postal service for anything to do with my mouth if I’m honest. Totally unregulated.

All the above orthodontic work I mentioned was completely and totally paid for,at some expense,privately.
We diligently and properly maintained the work,no new work has been needed and teeth are still where they were moved to. So there was no ‘complete lack of responsibility’, it’s just the night retainers provided were pretty shit and not worth their cost. I will not pay that much again for the same and think that’s pretty understandable.

I’ll repeat,(for the 3rd time),that if we get the Opro next,we’ll use the dying retainers regularly to check there’s no movement. If it looks like there is the start of movement,we’ll have to admit defeat and stump up the orthodontist’s costs for new retainers when the current retainers completely die.

Obviously it wouldn’t be great news for orthodontists and dentists if cheaper alternatives do work,so I understand the vehement defence but resent the inference that a) patients want something for nothing (no,just retainers that last more than a year/year and a half despite proper care),b) are irresponsible or c) unreasonable. I’m sure some patients might be but not all. Just like some dental professionals might be making money hand over fist but not all.

And when it’s private care,thankfully patients can shop around and the vast differences in what some practices charge for identical orthodontic appliances and services shows that it’s not exactly a loss-making venture.

@Lollygaggle yes,I accept that there are huge training and set-up costs (as with most professions) but appliances should last longer than they did,especially for their cost. We took the old ones in and the practice admitted they should’ve lasted longer and no blame was put upon us.

I've just had a look at an opro night guard.

It is utterly not suitable as a retainer. It is a ready made hard plastic tray with an inside plastic that you heat up in water to fit against some of your teeth. It is incredibly bulky, one size fits all and the thermoplastic inner will not be well fitting and will distort quickly, especially in the warmth of the mouth.

If your children do not have a "standard " size mouth you will not get it to fit at all.
Not only that but it is impossible to wear two at the same time as they are so bulky .

Here's a video showing you the boil in the bag nature of the product.

It doesn’t sound like great quality if they keep breaking. Maybe try another practice?

I just got impressions for new retainers to be made last week. It cost me £180 total for both upper and lower retainers. I thought that price was reasonable as I’m expecting them to last a long time. I won’t be happy if they crack after a few months or even after a couple of years.

The initial set I got in 2016 lasted until the other week when I mistakenly threw them in the bin and took the bin! There Was no signs of cracking and I grind my teeth. I’d had them for about 8 years. It worries me in this country that the prices of some things keep going up while quality is declining.

I don’t think retainers frequently breaking should be normalised, unless people are sitting on them or chucking them against walls or something they should last quite a while really.

@Lollygaggle well I guess when the time comes,I can choose whether to try it and see and/or ask the orthodontist whether they’ll provide thicker,decent quality/robust retainers at an affordable price.
If you’re saying it’s reasonable that orthodontist supplied retainers have to cost £150 ish per person every year or two,it’s a future cost that should absolutely be very clearly spelled out to patients before braces are undertaken,seeing as it’s for life (or as long as you’ve got teeth!).

@sausagedogpookie They really shouldn’t be cracking after a few months.
Yes, they’re expensive and technically difficult to make as they have to be made precisely. However they should last. If your current set don’t I would go back and question why? Your orthodontist should be able to provide an alternative.

Thank you for your response. None of the other replies addressed the poor quality issue or said they should last longer,only sought to justify the cost of something that ultimately wasn’t good value for the patient. I will do as you suggest!

@sausagedogpookie ICYMI : my post was a general reply mainly directed at Op, but I did mention the quality issue if it’s any interest to you!

@sausagedogpookie
also check how your kids are storing them when they’re not wearing them. Some types need to be kept damp, some in water, some in special solution, rarely dry. This may be your problem. But even if it is, it’s still down to the professional to get to the bottom of it for you.
I would be very unhappy if my patients felt like you do.

DD has Vivera retainers - they are brilliant, really good quality with much thicker plastic and made to last. They’re not the cheapest (£500 for a set of 3 pairs) but very much worth the money. The way I think about it is that if her teeth move it will be ££££ for more treatment, £500 every 3 years is nothing compared to that. Whilst waiting on the Vivera ones to arrive she had a regular one made by the orthodontist, it felt very flimsy in comparison and I can see how PP’s DC are wearing them out so quickly