Premium brands taking the piss?

[HannahHannahAnna]

Off the back of the thread about the Toast jumper, I went to check out a few of their items and their clothes are made in Romania, Turkey, Lithuania...

The other day I ordered something from a French brand in a very similar vein, also made in Lithuania.

I just clicked on the first dress that comes up on Sezane and it's made in Bulgaria.

House of Bruar doesn't give info on where it's stuff is made which doesn't bode well

Why are these companies charging a massive premium when they're using the same eastern European countries to manufacture as Primark?

At £200 for a jumper, I expect it to be made in England, no? Or is that wildly optimistic of me?

I second the recommendation for Huit denim. Also Blackhorse Lane Atelier in Walthamstow, East London for denim.

I'm a big fan of Begg & Co and & Daughter.

Also recommend Christopher Raeburn - everything is made (from recycled materials) in Hackney.

I know what OP means - TOAST were originally Welsh and this is something alluded to a fair bit (they were founded in south wales where the founders lived and started off by making amazing high quality PJs) House of Bruar are obviously Scottish and Sezane’s marketing reminds you they’re French every 10 seconds. So you’d expect some association between their product marketing and their place of production esp as they all play heavily on the locally crafted narrative.

I love all three brands by the way! Just don’t think the OP is xenophobic from this question!

The idea that sweatshops are in only Lithuania/Turkey/China rather than Leicester is deeply naive.

I’m not sure what the answer is - I don’t buy ‘fast fashion’ (I used to when young, but prefer quality now) - I would love some sort of guarantee that when I buy clothes the workers are paid a decent wage and have decent conditions regardless of the country of origin.

I think the point the IP is trying to make is that companies should not be manufacturing in places where the wages are much lower than in the UK, but charging as if they were paying British workers a living wage. Not that clothes made abroad are worse quality.

Primark makes cheaply but also sells cheaply - some of these high end manufacturers are screwing the workers and the consumer

Thanks to those who actually got my point.

I have clothes from these brands and am not disputing the quality.

I'm disputing the fact that they craft a while narrative of being firmly rooted in a specific place, whack on a huge premium compared to clothes from much lower priced high street brands, but actually there's nothing "British" or "French" about them, except for maybe they have a design team in London or Paris.
Apparently most of Zaras clothes are made in Spain and Portugal for example. So how can Toast or Sezane justify their huge prices?

And in terms if authenticity, isn't Zara, a Spanish brand manufacturing much of its gear in Spain, a lot more authentic?

There are good and poor quality manufacturers all over the world, including China. The key is to be able to visually inspect and feel the quality of the clothes. The seams, finish, fabric. The switch to online sales has made this more of a hassle.

If they are good, the rest fits with your ethics and the price is what you are happy to pay, go for it.

And OP, I agree. But consumers should be led by quality and ethics, rather than the country of manufacture.

And in terms if authenticity, isn't Zara, a Spanish brand manufacturing much of its gear in Spain, a lot more authentic?
If that's how you define authenticity and that's the criterion you think most important, ok?
I think it's more ethical to buy as little as possible, secondhand if possible, and consider longevity (style and quality) more important. Hardly surprisingly, IME more likely to find good quality made in countries that have actually invested in their textile manufacturing base over the past couple of decades.

Sahara make some of their clothing in England.

Anything made anywhere in Europe is a premium. And I just about include Turkey in that definition. Primark couldn’t afford Lithuania, they probably are made places like Vietnam and Bangladesh.

I’m assuming you don’t really want your preferred labels to manufacture in the UK because instead of being like £200-300, it’ll be £800-900.

Do they air freight clothes? I had imagined they ship them by sea.

The problem is you're trying to find an association between cost and place of manufacture.

Cost is the reason they are manufacturing abroad but it's not the reason the label is so expensive. After a certain point you're not paying for an increase in quality (in some ways it wouldn't be possible, there's an upper limit on quality).

The country of manufacture doesn't have one standard fabric used, thickness of material, quality of stitching etc, although you might be led to believe that by all the polyester tat coming out of Bangladesh and China. Even in China there are top quality high-end brands (they tend not to export them).

Another issue with manufacturing in Britain specifically is all our mills went abroad in the 1990s (ruined my local community where I grew up, people went from having jobs for life to being unemployable as most of them didn't have the right skillset for anything else). That means that our production capacity for clothing is really small these days, so when a brand gets to a certain level of success they either have to find the massive capital to build a mill in the UK and try and source the staff with the skillset they need (you can't train everyone up from scratch at the same time and continue fulfilling orders, it's not possible), or do what is cheaper and easier, and outsource it to somewhere where there is already a mill.

Every brand, even the high-end expensive ones, sell the MVP, or minimum viable product. For cheap brands like Primark, the minimum viable product is something that looks vaguely like an item of clothing. I bought trousers from there once and tried on a pair where one leg was an inch bigger than the other! For more expensive brands, the minimum viable product is something that looks like you would pay £200 (or whatever) for it. There's no perceived advantage to them to adding value by insisting on manufacturing in the UK/France/wherever their head office is.

It's not unreasonable to want this or to roll your eyes at "we're a British brand" when they're clearly not. The best way to support local brands/businesses is to find small brands that haven't outsourced their production yet.

Op if you're looking for British made clothing at prices that are comparable to, or even slightly lower than Toast, then I think it's do-able. Community Clothing (already mentioned), Carrier Company and, for shoes, Solovair spring to mind, and other posters have given more examples. But it's a small, niche market because, as monpetitlapin has explained, we don't have the capacity for mass manufacture any more. It's also often quite a specific look which I often like but that isn't everyone's up of tea.

Barrie knitwear in Hawick makes cashmere jumpers for the likes of Chanel

Yes, I agree it’s quite a specific look. I quite like some of it but most of it does not suit me at all.

Thanks for this. I like a lot of the stuff on there. Some nice colours too.

Look up The Croft House for knitwear made in Scotland, and Old Town for other clothes made in Suffolk. YY to Community Clothing.

I always recommend Izzy Lane. Their knitwear, coats, socks and blankets are great quality and reasonably priced.

izzylane.bigcartel.com/the-story

Mercurial I have just looked up Izzy Lane… just fab!

They really are. I've never been disappointed. XM23 will give you a discount of 25% off

Lots of interesting places to check out

I have a handmade tank from House of Bruar and it's made in Nepal. I don't see that as 'down-market'

Very few clothes are made in the U.K. I have one British made silk dress bought for a wedding, and that was very expensive even in a sale. Pay rates here are much higher.

And my Guernsey sweater was made in Guernsey.

What is more annoying and unnecessary is so called premium brands producing clothes made from cheap fabrics. There is no excuse for that.

Thanks for that - I bought from them around 10 years ago- didn't realise they were still going .

I have a couple of merino sweaters from Celtic & Co made in the UK.

Oddly I'm wrapping ds's Christmas socks and they are Made in England. So they do still exist. 😀

I paid a good high price for 2 outdoor fleeces from Londons-Finest, which is very similar to Melbournes-finest. I received utter cr#p from a warehouse in China.

I'm less concerned about country of origin for Toast clothes than I am.about the unattractiveness of them. I don't understand why people pay so much for clothes that are so unattractive. They don't even look good on the models in the catalogue, most of whom look as though they need a good hair cut, a bit of make-up and an increased iron count.