Charging for returns?

[thebellagio]

I've just seen that H&M are the latest company to charge for online returns

Am I the only one who's really pissed off by this?

The logical part of me does understand why they are doing it. But the emotional side of me is pissed off. I live in a small town - literally all the shops on the high street have closed (there's no saving it, it's dead). The ONLY clothes shops we have now are Primark and M&S - i'm in the middle, where I don't want to buy my clothes from Primark, I'm too old for that. But equally I just can't buy my clothes from the same place as my 70yo mum. I really cant do it!

I used to love places like DP - but they are also charging for returns. But our dotty P shut down, so there's no going into town to try things on, see if I like them. The nearest shopping centre is over an hour away, so i'm literally reliant on online shopping. But I'm a funny size - I'm in between sizes, and I'm quite short so without trying things on I literally don't know how different makes/brands will fit

But charging for returns just makes me not want to buy anything at all. So I end up relying on friggin ASDA for clothes

Which is fairer?

I'm afraid that I value convenience for me over any sense of fairness. So long as there are retailers who cover the cost in their prices I will be happy to given them my business and shop online.

I don't tend to enjoy visiting retail outlets and visit new ones only really to understand how their sizing schemes work. Thereafter, it's online all the way. For my own convenience.

Love the username, by the way. Loved that character.

But the retailers aren't covering the costs. Their customers are covering the costs, either way. That's really the point I am trying to make. Lots of PPs seem to think that retailers who don't charge a separate fee are not passing the costs onto the customer, which is naive.

Glad you like the username 😁

@MissLucyEyelesbarrow but in many cases the cost of returns was formerly included in the cost of the items, but now it’s being levied as an additional charge without any decrease in prices. It’s poor business psychology to charge it separately as people feel like they’re being ripped off.

I just think if retailers want to charge for returns they need to do everything possible to prevent them in the first place

sl standardised sizing, better imagery of the product, more details on how items hang/feel/wash/ - even adding in user generated images rather than the overly photoshopped stuff you see on most retailer websites.

seeing an image of a size 8 5ft 10 model doesn’t help me to visualise what that same item would look like on a size 14x 5ft4 dumpy me. Let alone some of the weird poses that some models do

but ultimately I just feel a bit discriminated against (not sure if that’s the right word really) because my local high street literally has no shops. I don’t have an option to buy in store and therefore avoid these potential return charges. If you live in a big city close to somewhere like Westfield or the Trafford centre or whatever then lucky you - you have more options.

@Possimpible I recently bought 4 dresses online from nobody's child with the aim of keeping one of them and returning the other 3. 1 fiy out of 4. They were ALL different sizes - from the same brand and with two of them the same dress in two different patterns! I can't see how you can get around over ordering when sizing is not even consistent for items let alone for brands.

Many places who charge for postal returns accept returns for free in store, which is an option for some. But I’d rather people pay for returns over everyone paying more in the price of items.

Yes we tall women have always had a nightmare on the high street. I've been buying online since 1978.

I buy so much from H&M and agree their sizes are all over. Plus recently bought an item with 1 pic only to discover the back was a totally different style, put a picture of it on the website then! I usually order 2 sizes when I buy online so I'm disappointed albeit I am a member it still puts me off. I also like New Look but I think they also charge and sadly I haven't shopped at DP since they introduced the charge having been a big fan. I'm really short and a funny size, I need to see clothes on. I miss real shops.

I buy so much from H&M and agree their sizes are all over. Plus recently bought an item with 1 pic only to discover the back was a totally different style, put a picture of it on the website then! I usually order 2 sizes when I buy online so I'm disappointed albeit I am a member it still puts me off. I also like New Look but I think they also charge and sadly I haven't shopped at DP since they introduced the charge having been a big fan. I'm really short and a funny size, I need to see clothes on. I miss real shops.

If I had shops an hour away I'd just make a day trip away either twice a year (for the start of each season) or 4 times for the end of season sales too.

I don't think an hour is far to go once every 3 months?

Who needs to go clothes shopping more often than that?

I've never done online clothes shopping. I always have to try on loads of clothes to find something I like/that fits. The idea of doing that at home and returning fills me with horror.

Do you not have charity shops closer? I get lots of bits and pieces from them.

Measurement of each size in the description would be helpful.

Chest size pit to pit.
Sleeve length
Garment length
Inside trouser leg
Width of trouser leg

I rationalise that in the ‘old days’ I’d have paid for parking and petrol to return something. It’s still easier and more convenient to drop at a parcel shop. I tend to do a few larger orders than lots of small ones though so it’s not impacting that much.

As someone who lives near hordes of shops, I don't even think physical shopping is necessarily a viable alternative. Shops often have low stock of items, especially in popular sizes (10 and 12 where I am). They have items online they don't have in the shop, or different branches have different ranges, or there'll be 'online exclusives'. The 'find in store' is very hit and miss.

It's so true about size guides. With many garments you don't even get the length and the photos seem there to deliberately tease. Tucked in tops, models in all sorts of weird poses. I find videos very helpful. I feel if the retailers focused more on this, they'd have fewer returns so it seems odd they don't.

Yes, to this. Plus they don’t offer full range in store, far from this. I’m our store they only do younger children sizes and small range of clothes in general. So how they can charge me for ordering size e.g 12-14 years if it’s not available in store and only available online? Yes, I know I can become a member. However my first “go for” option will be shop elsewhere.

I'm clearly in the minority but I think it's probably good for the planet that retailers are charging for returns. Yes, there some people doing hauls, but also just average people overordering and sending stuff back. I've read numerous threads here where people say, Oh, I've ordered this and this but it'll most likely go back. Why are you ordering stuff that you already know you probably don't want? I live close to an outlet that sells unwanted returns and there are tons and tons of perfectly good, returned items which have gone back to retailers but which cost the retailer too much to process so they bulk sell them on. So much goes into landfill. I'm hoping that if you have to pay for returns it'll make people consider their purchases more thoroughly.

However, I do totally wish all retailers put measurements of all garments (individually) on their website. I have bought anything from a size S to a size XXL in the last few years (I'm size 14)

I also rationalise it so that doing returns in person would cost me at least £4 on bus/tube fares and would be more time-consuming so I'd rather just pay the postage.

Buying online since 1978? 😂

Any system that might have once existed for sizing is totally broken. Even if they display measurements, it doesn't mean my waist will be in the same place as it is on the garment.

Colours often look completely different on a screen to real life.

If the fabric is described as cotton I still don't know how heavy it's going to be or how soft to the touch,

No screen close up ever shows me what the stitching is like, or how the seams have been finished or how secure the hems are.

Back in the day I could have found answers to all those questions by looking closely at the garment, feeling it, and trying it on before paying for it. It is not the fault of customers that many of us now have no choice but to take a punt and order unseen, often in multiple sizes. The idea that we should be held responsible for retailers' abject failure to display their goods clearly is cheeky fuckery of the highest order.

As an online retailer myself, I can assure you that making that change is borne of absolutely necessity.

There is a strong culture of window shopping where people buy to try. Imagine the cost of covering 5 returns for every 10 sales.

There is more than just postage. Every return requires administration, packaging, disposal.

If you bought something in a shop you wouldn't expect a free return.

I agree OP. Sizes aren’t reliable, even within the same brand. Measurements aren’t accurate either. A size 12 is supposed to be a 30 inch waist but I measure 35 inches and it fits me. If I order the size 18 which is supposed to be my size according to measurements, it’s huge on me. So I end up ordering multiple sizes and returning some. And I can’t try on in store because they don’t stock half of the items that are on the website. If they want less returns they need to provide accurate sizing and more photos and measurements.

@MiniBossFromAus I absolutely appreciate that viewpoint. And as I said in my OP, I do genuinely understand the rationale behind it, but for me as a customer, it's just another barrier to being able to purchase.

As I said, I'm in the middle of nowhere. I don't have the option to shop in-store - even going to the nearest post office is 4 miles in the car (selling on vinted is a real pain in the arse) so I don't get the choice of being able to see things.

If items are not as described or as expected it seems pissy to make the consumer pay for the return when they had literally no way of knowing if it was right in the first place.

Just to add, just because there is no BnM shop front, the online store itself is extremely expensive to run. Payment merchants charge fees regardless of returns which we don't get back after a refund.

My tech store costs £30,000.00 a year to run - not including staff, other systems, processes, procedures.

We have to sell £450,000 of product before we make a cent of profit. It's a cut throat, highly competitive industry that is required to sell at the lowest possible price point to even get a look in.

@thebellagio I'm in the middle of nowhere. I don't have the option to shop in-store - even going to the nearest post office is 4 miles in the car

I think you might be exaggerating how hard it is for you and overestimating convenience for urban dwellers - I live in a large town and I'm still a 2.5 mile drive to the post office? 4 miles is not that far, it's a 15 min drive if that. You're not 'literally reliant' on online shopping - I have an outlet store about an hour away that I'll go to every so often. It's not the ends of the earth.

I agree with that. And it's obvious from the comments on this thread that people genuinely think they aren't paying delivery/returns costs, if those aren't charged separately. So you can see why retailers hide the costs. It's the same psychology as BOGOF being more appealing than "A third off the price of 3 items, two of which you probably don't really need" 😀

On the flip side, this should mean that even quite a low returns charge will act as a deterrent to returns, which is good for the environment.

It's a tough one - luckily for me, my products are what they are. So we get very few return requests. We also don't accept unsealed returns anymore because our suppliers won't take the goods back.

I reckon there is a gap in the market for an online clothing size and colour comparison app.

Agree with this.