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What is the balanced moderate approach with sunscreen?

82 replies

faretheewell · 12/08/2022 22:12

I wear sunscreen. I'm fair skinned will burn, get rashes in the sun. I cover up and wear hats plus sunglasses in UV higher than 2.

But I am concerned. The sheer amount of sunscreen the skincare industry advises. Which they profit from. The health concerns over chemical and physical sunscreen ingredients being absorbed by the body and breaking down which actually increases sun damage. The inhibiting of the main source of Vit D and the difficulty of supplementation. The environmental damage and damage to ocean life forms can't mean anything good.

Flip side off course is skin cancers.

There must be a more balanced approach. Any guesses?

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Cynderella · 12/08/2022 22:18

If I go on a holiday that involves lying by the pool or on a beach, I'll use it, but rest of the year, I don't sit in the sun for long. I don't burn from a bit of time in the garden, or out and about, so rarely use sunscreen in the UK.

When my kids were little, we didn't use much - just covered up and kept out of midday sun. We were on holiday a couple of weeks ago, and it was noticeable that a lot more people were covering up with T shirts in pool etc - it was really hot, but I didn't see much sunburn, so I guess that meant a lot of sunscreen. I imagine fast fashion will be selling a lot of cover up summer clothes next year.

faretheewell · 12/08/2022 22:24

That's promising, @Cynderella. I think I need to, though. I can get rashes in the sun and burn. But I'm ok with factor 15 upwards (I think) although usually buy Factor 30 these days. It might depend on the strength of the UV. Trying to think at what time of day it would have been problematic in the past. Maybe at a UV of 4 and upwards.

I'm fair, blue eyes and freckles.

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Thenose · 12/08/2022 22:33

Have you any evidence that zinc oxide penetrates the skin or causes damage?

faretheewell · 12/08/2022 22:34

@Thenose, I have read some articles. Quick google and this one came up:

www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/10/211014100220.htm

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faretheewell · 12/08/2022 22:38

As I say, there is quite a fair bit of mixed messaging plus an industry which profits on selling all this stuff to add into the mix.

I don't really have any easy answers myself. Thought someone else might be able to offer some wisdom?

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botemp · 13/08/2022 07:03

There's a lot of misinformation in your OP which is not surprising considering there's is much scaremongering and misinformation from non scientific activist groups like EWG.

The skincare industry isn't the main body advising sunscreen, it's the WHO, professional dermatology asscoiations worldwide, skin cancer prevention organisations, health ministries practically everywhere, etc. They're not all in it to profit off sunscreen sales and the skincare industry itself has only been on the SPF bandwagon the last ten years at most. The reason for that, it's not a money spinner (development, regulations, quality control make it costly) so they've never been interested in investing much advertising budget to it and that's still the case. The added emphasis on use of SPF has mostly come from dermatologists and skincare bloggers gaining a social media platform (but so has the everything chemical is going to kill us crowd).

Vitamin D malabsorption has only ever been a theoretical supposition. More recent scientific reviews however show there isn't any evidence of any correlation, some studies even found regular sunscreen users had better vitamin D levels (likely down to lifestyle though, a regular sunscreen user is more likely to be outdoorsy, etc.). Realistically speaking, in Northern Europe you're not going to be able to get all the vitamin D from the sun, anyhow, you'll need to supplement it. The Vikings did it with fermented cod liver oil and there was no sunscreen back then.

Damage to coral reefs, again, is greatly exaggerated and doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

There's a lot of scaremongering around absorption, when it's very much the dose that makes the poison. You'd need to be ingesting (ie. drinking) liters of sunscreen daily for many many years for it to harm you.

Now if you still don't want to take that minor risk, stick with non-nano physical (titanium and zinc oxide) sunscreens. No absorption as their particle size makes it impossible to be absorbed through the skin, they're not chemical (the mining of these ingredients is, however, not the best for the environment but that's the case for a lot of clean/natural beauty raw ingredients). They're not the most pleasant to use and will likely leave a white cast but if that's what will ease your mind just go with that.

I'd also suggest reading/watching Labmuffin beauty who is a Chemist PhD and cosmetic scientists whose gone over many of your concerns in a lot more depth then I can/have.

faretheewell · 13/08/2022 07:35

There's a lot of misinformation in your OP which is not surprising considering there's is much scaremongering and misinformation from non scientific activist groups like EWG.
In one way, that might reassure me. However, what do you think of the research done by the likes of Richard Weller?

www.research.ed.ac.uk/en/persons/richard-weller

This article gives an overview.

www.outsideonline.com/health/wellness/sunscreen-sun-exposure-skin-cancer-science/

Essentially, I only really asking questions. As for my own current actions, I wear long lasting Ultrasun, by the time it's beginning to wear off the UV is lower than peak (3 or at the most 4) anyway. I figured long lasting at least is the most stable in terms of ingredients breaking down and Ultrasun won awards for being reef safe. I wear a hat and sun glasses and only really expose my arms in the sun.

However the current message is somewhat restrictive. I would love to enjoy some carefree time on a beach a swimming in the sea for example but all I I think of now is, how? Rash suit? Reapply, reapply? Crack of dawn? Late afternoon only? Ditto many outdoor activities really. And what about some of the advice, wear all year round in copious amounts? Reapply every 1 and a half to two hours? That much product over a lifetime has not been researched...

So, @botemp, where do you draw the line? I, personally, struggle.

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faretheewell · 13/08/2022 07:36

Sorry, first sentence quotes botemp.

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carefullycourageous · 13/08/2022 07:41

I do not put sunscreen on every day. I wear long sleeves and a neck cover most of the time in summer. On my face I put sunscreen when I will be out in long stretches, but not if I'm just walking to the bus stop.

Mostly I'm a sun avoider.

faretheewell · 13/08/2022 07:45

Do you supplement Vit D @carefullycourageous?

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carefullycourageous · 13/08/2022 07:47

faretheewell · 13/08/2022 07:45

Do you supplement Vit D @carefullycourageous?

Not me. Yes for the kids, they take/took vitD in winter.

carefullycourageous · 13/08/2022 07:48

I roll my sleeves up for vit D though. Prob not as much as I should.

It sounds like this is a thing for you.

glowinglantern · 13/08/2022 07:48

I’m like you and very fair. I never sunbathe and tend to actively avoid the sun (I’ll always choose shade if possible), I always wear sunglasses and a hat on sunny days. I do use SPF moisturiser but otherwise I don’t bother with SPF day to day.

Yesterday we went for a walk to the beach in the late afternoon sun so I wore factor 50. But I wouldn’t wear it if I were just popping to the local shop or something, although I know lots do.

It seems to work for me as I never tan or burn. But it probably helps that I don’t enjoy spending lots of time in the sun anyway!

faretheewell · 13/08/2022 07:49

Do your children wear more sunscreen than you @carefullycourageous?

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Twattergy · 13/08/2022 07:51

I'd agree amount of choice is overwhelming.
I just do a face specific 50 that is really light and not ghost like, also use that on chest.
Then bog standard boots or similar for body at factor 30. Not in winter though.

faretheewell · 13/08/2022 07:53

It sounds like this is a thing for you

It is a bit. I thought I had it sussed this year with the Ultrasun which I don't mind wearing but then walking past a beach the other day I began to feel nostalgic for more carefree days of actually enjoying the sun. I'm contemplating now, what the best way to do this is going forward. Heatwaves and all, our climate is changing and I want some balance to my lifestyle.

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botemp · 13/08/2022 07:53

I have trust in institutions and scientific consensus and consider fringe opinions just that, fringe. Sorry, I can't take a wellness site seriously that thinks sunscreen advise is racist and even they label the man controversial and then try to prop him up as some sort of brave rebel. I'd also point out that the q-anon anti vaxxer global conspiracy crowd are currently heavily peddling a sunscreen is evil narrative with big pharma overtones so be really mindful of the information you consume.

My own line is a lot more relaxed than yours, skin cancer is the greater risk, the potential risk of harm in sunscreen is neglible, I'm a lot more concerned about pollution. Something will kill me eventually, I strive to live the life I have left as healthily as possible, regular sunscreen use is a big part of that. I trust in scientific consensus because the system of gathering that consensus, while not perfect as we are human after all, is as close to objective as we get. Listening to dissenting voices is part of that, but it's something for the scientific community to engage in discourse over, not lay people.

carefullycourageous · 13/08/2022 07:54

faretheewell · 13/08/2022 07:49

Do your children wear more sunscreen than you @carefullycourageous?

When they were younger and running around yes, plus kids wear less clothes as they get hotter. As they got older I gave the choice of e.g. long sleeves or cream. They wore caps more than me. But yes overall a bit more on the kids especially on faces.

I think we are quite sun avoidant/shade seeking as a family. I had not thought how much until this thread!

carefullycourageous · 13/08/2022 07:58

I would rather stay home than be on the beach in August. Our whole family descends into a sweaty grumpy mess!

So maybe I am not a good example.

I am careful/mindful as I burnt terribly as a child. So what you call 'carefree' I call 'painful'! I think @botemp is right about the weight on each side of this argument. If you want to follow advice, go with NHS/WHO. There is more risk from not enough suncream use than too much.

faretheewell · 13/08/2022 08:00

Listening to dissenting voices is part of that, but it's something for the scientific community to engage in discourse over, not lay people.

I've got to say, I feel deeply uneasy with this statement. There have been many mistakes in the past concerning medical practices which were common. Do we have to wait for the fallout before questioning the advice we are given? The sheer amount of product that is being commonly advised to use - all year round is by no means insignificant.

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faretheewell · 13/08/2022 08:02

I am careful/mindful as I burnt terribly as a child. So what you call 'carefree' I call 'painful'!

I have been there too! I just am in awe of the people enjoying it really... and wondering how I can deal with the heat and sun better.

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sweeetpotato · 13/08/2022 08:02

If we are abroad, or spending a day on a beach in very high temperatures, we all have factor 30
or 50 on.

Day to day, I don't put suncream on any of us, ever, unless it's particularly hot and we will be outside for long periods.

I can't get worked up about any of what seems to worry you.

I don't want skin cancer so I protect our skin when it's necessary, the end.

Ws2210 · 13/08/2022 08:15

I understand where youre coming from OP. Ive massively bought into the advice to wear it everyday and reapply reapply....but I hate feeling sticky all the time and feel.like a bit of an obsessive. Hadnt even thought of the health risks! Last week I bought a huge sun visor, which makes me look a bit like a handmaid but gives me some peace of mind.

We do know that a person's risk for melanoma doubles if they have had more than five sunburns. And those reports on wrinkles and sun cream use are very convincing (google truck driver sun damage etc)

faretheewell · 13/08/2022 08:16

I can't get worked up about any of what seems to worry you.

That's admirable. It just feels wrong to me, somehow, to be so reliant on product. I wear sunscreen, don't get me wrong and have in recent years got through copious amounts of the stuff plus managed to inadvertently spread it about most surfaces in the house and car. Some has irritated my skin and finding ones which don't has required some research. But this coupled with some serious concerns and the research highlighting safety concerns over the ingredients makes me feel uncomfortable.

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faretheewell · 13/08/2022 08:19

Yes, @Ws2210, I'm there with the hat and the feeling sticky. Moved onto sports formulations too as I manage to sweat some of the lesser ones off! Dread to think regarding sunburns, I grew up in the 70s!

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