Fast fashion?

[hihellohihello]

I've got to say I'm puzzled by the concept.

A lot of what people describe as fast fashion is just high street versions of expensive brand designs. People talk about lack of longevity in the styles but in IMO that is more due to the style bought rather than the branding.

People complain about the materials however both use manmade materials both are a mixture of more sustainably sourced and less. Green washing is present in both ends of the fashion market.

People talk about construction. But if you examine how something is made and deduced all seams seem sturdy enough and it fits you well is it really fast fashion just because it is bought from the night street?

To me fast fashion is more about how you wear it. If you wear stuff for years it is not fast fashion. Full stop. Regardless of where it came from. I've got high street and supermarket clothes I have even bought second hand I have had for years and they still look good and I will continue to wear them.

I think fast fashion needs to stop being used as a justification for a) sneering at people who spend less of individual items of clothing and b) a justification for spending ridiculous amounts of money on clothing.

Well that's my opinion. What's your's?

High street not night street!

Fast fashion is stuff you buy, wear a few times and discard. It doesn't matter if it's Gucci ( heaven forbid),Jigsaw or Primark. But generally it's taken to mean designs, production and marketing of high turnover stuff, eg like when George did catwalk rip offs within a week.

Slow fashion is about wearing your wardrobe and mindfully adding new to you things that you will wear and wear. It also includes considering the design, manufacturing process and marketing

Hah. Well, maybe it is the marketing that I object to/rebel against. As I said I wear stuff for years regardless of where I bought it from. It doesn't need to be marketed as slow fashion for me for it to be slow fashion or fast fashion for it to be fast fashion. I don't generally buy stuff I don't like so it is all slow fashion.

Well I don't see how you can be puzzled by the concept of fast fashion. If you mean you do not like fast fashion I can understand

I get the sense you've posted expecting an argument but I can't see that much to disagree with, other than our final point: I would argue that it's the high street that's charging 'ridiculous amounts of money'. Even with the best technology at your fingertips, making clothes is a skilled job and when prices are as low as they are, it means someone, somewhere is not being fairly paid for their work. Of course we all shop where we can afford, me included. But I don't think it is sneering to bear this in mind and to do the best you can - within your own budget, whatever that may be - to avoid contributing to it.

@Floisme I agree. I cannot conceive that any retailer can charge £9.99 for something and have paid decent wages earned in safe conditions

I agree with @Floisme. My concern with some fast fashion brands is their use of slave labour or, at the very least, appalling working conditions.

fast fashion brands

Now which are these? If you delve around a bit some brands which claim to be more sustainable etc are simply employing sophisticated green washing marketing. Some brands which people on here claim are less fast fashion are owned by the same umbrella companies that the brands they complain about are fast fashion. Big luxury brands have also been guilty of using slave labour.

The difficulty with “ethical” fashion companies is how far do you go with it? How they treat their store/warehouse employees? How they treat their factory workers constructing the garments? How ethically is the fabrics and other components required created and sourced? How ethical is the cotton production? Will the garment have longevity and/or biodegrade in future? Are we shipping containers full of garments across the world?

I ask these as chemicals used to dye fabrics and industrial farming of cotton is highly damaging to environments - but is rarely considered when people are looking to avoid fast fashion.

It’s very very difficult to be 100% ethical when buying clothes in 2022, unless you are prepared to pay a lot of money, £60+ for a t shirt, and do significant research every time you buy anything to ensure you fully meet all these standards. There is a lot of greenwashing where brands highlight the few things they are doing that are good, while disguising the terrible things they are supporting - you can’t trust the marketing. Also there is a myth of pay more = a more ethical product, you might get a superior one (higher quality fabric, construction…) but the workers are often treated as badly - however the balance of this is that high quality item might last double the time, so ultimately reduces overall damage and consumption.

For me, the solution is to try and buy thoughtfully and with intention, and simply not over consume. Whether that’s an expensive jumper from a UK knitwear, or a pair of jeans from H&M - I only buy things I know I will get a lot of use and wear out of.

@hihellohihello

fast fashion brands

Now which are these? If you delve around a bit some brands which claim to be more sustainable etc are simply employing sophisticated green washing marketing. Some brands which people on here claim are less fast fashion are owned by the same umbrella companies that the brands they complain about are fast fashion. Big luxury brands have also been guilty of using slave labour.

I agree totally. Greenwashing is a massive problem at all ends of the scale. I try to only buy from brands with a higher rating by Good on You. It's not perfect but it does at least give an indication of how transparent a company is.

I think also the expensive brands are sometimes just more expensive in order to support exclusivity. Short runs of garments means you don't get the economy of scale as you do with high street retailers but the clothes themselves are not necessarily any better. You are just paying for a little exclusivity and a name. But then the high street brands make similar clothes anyway so the product is not that exclusive.

The real antidote to fast fashion, I feel, is buying second hand and getting a lot of wear out of items.

Well I don't see how you can be puzzled by the concept of fast fashion. If you mean you do not like fast fashion I can understand

What puzzles me is the inconsistencies in what constitutes fast fashion. The fact that the definition of fast fashion is also influenced by greenwashing marketing so people seem to end up believing that slow fashion is synonymous with expensive luxury brands. When really slow fashion is more about rebelling against the marketing that encourages us to spend more. We are really being sold a dud if all slow fashion just means we get less product for our money.

Slow fashion is more about longevity of clothes. Reusing the same items. Whether that is by buying second hand and selling/donating unwanted items which are still wearable or swapping them or just wearing what you buy new over and over again. Yes, the clothes need to be hardy enough for that so all you can do is check for quality when purchasing. But many of the cheaper high street and supermarket brands do actually produce good quality clothes IME.

Last post @Sooverthemill

I think "fast fashion" is often used to mean "wasteful fashion". It encompasses clothes that are made of poor quality fabric that only survives a few washes, and "influencer culture" where people buy something, wear it once then throw it away because of the desire to have a constantly updated wardrobe. This in turn is driven by brands turning fresh stock round every couple of weeks. But to me it should include the high end brands, who burn surplus stock rather than sell it cheaply, to avoid "cheapening" their brand.

But to me it should include the high end brands, who burn surplus stock rather than sell it cheaply, to avoid "cheapening" their brand.

Absolutely!

I agree with a lot of what you say op, but the main issue I have with high street quality is its unpredictability. I can buy 2 items from Uniqlo and one will be great and last years and the other will be a piece of shit that bobbles and loses its shape after a couple of washes. I've been shopping a long time and I still struggle to spot in advance which items I'm going to get a lot of wear out of. I think what you're paying extra for with some - not all - higher end brands is better consistency.

Secondly, I'm a big second hand shopper and I fear the second hand clothing industry is also in real danger of turning into a racket. Who's behind all these pay by the kilo sales for example or the 'vintage' chains that are popping up everywhere? I'd love to know.

I fear the second hand clothing industry is also in real danger of turning into a racket. Who's behind all these pay by the kilo sales for example or the 'vintage' chains that are popping up everywhere? I'd love to know.

That's the thing. People always want to make money. I think the challenge is simply just to not over consume. And it is a challenge, there are obstacles. The method whereby we achieve not falling foul of overconsumption can vary.

Regarding longevity I find stiffer thicker materials seem to last longer. Softer, finer, stretchier cloths seem to be more prone to wear although some technical clothing can be incredibly resilient (2XU running tights bought in a sale I have had for years and still going strong).

Yes but I think the words 'seem to' and 'some' are doing a lot of heavy lifting in your post, aren't they? We can all be wise after the event but the big question is how can we tell in advance which items will last and which won't? There are threads all the time on here about how to 'buy less but buy better' and, for the most part, I don't think this is about being sneery but about how to navigate a way through.

Yes but I think the words 'seem to' and 'some' are doing a lot of heavy lifting in your post, aren't they?

@Floisme

Not all that much. The reason I said 'seem to' is that some more technical sporting stretchy fabrics have longevity, for which I read the label and reviews. But overall I would stand by what I said in that thicker, stiffer fabrics have more longevity than thinner, softer, stretchier ones.

I don't think this is about being sneery but about how to navigate a way through.

Absolutely, we agree on that. However, I have observed a certain sneeriness in the past. Which was laughable at the time because the brands on the preferred lists were owned by the same umbrella companies as the ones that were slated.

Also the way we wear clothes has a bearing on things. Years ago people wore overalls, aprons and kept clothes for best to ensure longevity. (I will put my apron on if I'm wearing pale colours and serving a takeaway ).

I agree with you there! Also how we wash and dry them makes a big difference. I wash my cheaper clothes just as carefully as my expensive ones, if more so because the better fabrics can usually take a bit more rough handling.

Soz: If not more so etc

@Sooverthemill May I ask why Gucci requires a 'heaven forbid' but Jigsaw and Primark both pass without comment?

There seems to be so much hate on this forum for Gucci and many of the comments are clearly made by people who have never even owned or won anything from the brand.