Designers are taking the piss

[Iamthewombat]

I was doing a bit of browsing on The Outnet’s clearance section whilst making dinner and for fun decided to find the most hideous garment for sale.

It was a close run thing but the winner was these heinous shoes from Stella McCartney:

www.theoutnet.com/en-gb/shop/product/stella-mccartney/pumps/high-heel-pumps/faux-snake-effect-leather-pumps/24092600057312219

Insult to injury alert: not only are they vile, but they are crafted from ‘vegan leather’. WTF is vegan leather? I looked it up and it is apparently the trendy new name for polyurethane.

She originally wanted £680 for those monstrosities. £680 for plastic shoes! Surely old Stella is taking the piss? Do people actually pay that for hideous plastic shoes?

Any plant based product is going to have to be grown in a factory or otherwise will need some pretty intensive pest control. Wildlife whether insect or larger will want to eat it.
So you have animals ( and plenty of farms are carbon neutral in the U.K.) and have the benefits of bio diversity in the countryside or plants in a mono culture or in an industrial artificial environment.

I love the wooden heels.

This seems like a peculiar thing to get so worked up about?

I’m not ‘worked up’. Calm down, dear. The most worked up people on this thread are the vegans. Are you the one who complained, apropos of nothing, that people attempted to force bacon on her, or was that somebody else?

Here’s how the thread went;

1. I note that calling cheap plastic ‘vegan leather’ is taking the piss and an attempt to pass polyurethane off as a more expensive product, ie leather.

1. The bleeding hearts tell us that we have to be kind to the poor animals.

1. And that we shouldn’t be eating meat and that Stella McCartney is not in fact a shyster but is doing great things for the poor animals.

1. Other posters note that Stella’s use of plastic isn’t so great for the poor animals

1. And that there is no such thing as ‘vegan leather’, why not call the material what it really is.

1. The vegans respond with “it’s not all plastic, you can make shoes out of pineapples”.

1. I ask to see evidence of the pineapple shoes that use no plastic.

1. The ‘vegan leather’ advocates retort with ‘why do you care so much?’. I always like to see that retort in a debate because it means that the opposing side is on the ropes and knows that their argument is lost.

I’m not ‘worked up’. Calm down, dear

And yet you're the one sneeringly referring to other's as 'bleeding hearts' and telling everyone to 'calm down dear' when they ask a straightforward question.

If you just wanted to start a vegan bashing thread at least have the integrity to be honest about it.

why do you care so much?’. I always like to see that retort in a debate because it means that the opposing side is on the ropes and knows that their argument is lost.

I may have missed it but what is 'the argument'? I'm supposed to have lost? I'll certainly agree that you've been antagonistic but where exactly have we had an argument? I wasn't actually aware we'd directly disagreed on anything on this thread 🤷‍♀️

Aha: a vegan looking for excuses to feel ‘bashed’.

No, love, this isn’t a vegan bashing thread. It’s a thread about plastic shoes being passed off as something else in order to justify high prices, remember?

I agree there is a marketing issue here. Some time ago I purchased a cover for my kindle on the basis it was leather - when it arrived it was PU leather, or 'pleather'. I often see items headlined as being leather but when you look at the small print state they are PU leather. I think this is blatantly misleading.

Plastic 'leather' or vegan 'leather' is not leather as I know it. I do think the word ' pleather' sums it up quite well, ie a contraction of plastic and leather. Personally I would always go for real leather as it lasts longer (with care and attention) and will outlive pleather and therefore is more sustainable and better for the environment. Trust me i have had a few pleather items and they start to disintegrate after a few months / years. So I would not be in the market for Stella McCartney's shoes, regardless of cost.

@Iamthewombat

she has done so much to show you don't need to use fur or leather for fashion

Does she need to charge £680 for polyurethane shoes to do so?

😂 - right!

This is one of the silliest threads l’ve ever witnessed in over 10 years of MN.
Surely the original post was just a bit of fun?
Honestly...

@Iamthewombat

Aha: a vegan looking for excuses to feel ‘bashed’.

No, love, this isn’t a vegan bashing thread. It’s a thread about plastic shoes being passed off as something else in order to justify high prices, remember?

Umm... not a vegan so wrong there

And the shoes aren't being passed off as anything. As I asked before do you think peanut butter or coconut milk are dairy? Or that paper bag trousers are made of paperbags?

Either you take offence at all literal retail descriptions, or you're singling out this issue to have a dig at vegans.

I suspect the latter as you've been pretty unpleasant to them so far.

I'm no fashionista but it's pretty well established that the McCartney family are vegans/animal rights activists - they even have their own range of food.

Yet you seem surprised that they produce vegan clothes

But vegan leather should be covered by the Trade Descriptions Act. It’s not leather, it’s plastic.

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow

But vegan leather should be covered by the Trade Descriptions Act. It’s not leather, it’s plastic.

Peanut butter isn't butter 🤷‍♀️

Isn’t the term butter also about consistency though. Like apple butter or cherry or pear butter? Butter is a dairy product, but also describes a consistency.

Whereas leather describes an actual animal by product and isn’t used to describe anything else.

Those shoes are hilarious, although I had a lower heeled black version from Freeman Hardy Willis in year 9 and thought I was the tits.
In defence of vegan leather: my Adidas sleek don't feel plasticy but are (recycled) synthetic and have lasted really well since last summer, with a clean up they would be good as new

Possibly peanut butter should be described as peanut spread or something. I guess the reason people don't mind about peanut butter being described as butter is because we all know what peanut butter is. It isn't described that way to receive us. The feeling with vegan 'leather' is that the manufacturer is maybe trying to not draw attention to the truth of what the material actually is, to encourage the consumer to feel they are getting a product of a certain value.

As an aside but linked to the designer world of labels and push for on trend ethical (slave free supply chain) eco materials. Would it not be fantastic if not fanciful for designers and those in marketing or materials scientists to be more creative with new materials and products labelling.

Why can't materials be positively distinctively labelled. Instead of not or faux/fake leather being not animal product but synthetic fossil fuel petrochemical plastic or plant based - why can't designers create a new label? Even car manufacturers have non real leather alternatives with various marketing names for cheaper lower trim levels.

Perhaps something along the lines of plant threads from fossilised petrochemical plastics? We all understand materials such as Teflon (apart being used to describe elected politicians that literally get away with cold daylight murder stateside).

The same with meat alternatives etc which is a label stating what it is like in taste, look and feel but is not. It sounds like some substitute second rate consolidation offering when it should ideally benefit from spinning it on its head and positively labelled as the best thing since sliced ......? Not just as an alternative substitute but as a thing and positive preference choice instead. Same for all the beyond meat vegetarian alternatives. Instead of vegetarian steak or burger how about protein beans, pluses and gains patty etc. Steak and burger as with sausage tend to denote meat so why contradictory use a blended hybrid term instead so for instance instead of tofu burger to simply tofu patty and bun. Vegan leather sounds like a confusing contradiction!

Possibly an opportunity for vegan eco warriors to offer attractive positive options and not saying something is fake this or that but this is x y z and take some creative initiative and pride.

New (XYZ) material designer clothes anyone?

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow

Isn’t the term butter also about consistency though. Like apple butter or cherry or pear butter? Butter is a dairy product, but also describes a consistency.

Whereas leather describes an actual animal by product and isn’t used to describe anything else.

Dunno. My crunchy peanut butter isn't very buttery. Not sure what apple butter is?

You could argue the point for milk etc too

Leather is also a consistency/material descriptor too, sometimes used to refer to foods - things like fruits winders/bear fruit rolls are fruit leathers

www.bbcgoodfood.com/recipes/fruit-leather

Don't think anyone will be confusing them with fashion items though 🤷‍♀️