Properly Warm Ethical (not down) Jackets?

[PhilippaBlake]

I avoid down (for obvious ethical reasons) so I'm wondering if anyone can suggest a non-down, properly warm, puffa (puffer?) style jacket.

I have looked at ethically sourced down in the past but they were a bit £££ - as they need to be, of course, but out of my price range. Cheaper polyester ones look/feel like they won't last long (or be warm enough).

Are there any decent brands/coats people can suggest which are not throwaway fashion, and also not too spendy? I know I'm asking a lot! I think I've seen an outdoor brand recommended in the past - possibly using a recycled filling? - but can't remember who!

@PlanDeRaccordement it’s not one duck is it? Down is produced on an industrial scale.

And like I say - recycled plastics. You’re using plastic which already exists rather than creating new plastics. You can mitigate the risk of plastics entering the water system.

The only truly sustainable choice here is second hand. Every other option is a compromise.

[quote Sasuma]**@PlanDeRaccordement* it’s not one* duck is it? Down is produced on an industrial scale.

And like I say - recycled plastics. You’re using plastic which already exists rather than creating new plastics. You can mitigate the risk of plastics entering the water system.[/quote]
At least the ducks are ALIVE if down is gathered or if DEAD are a by product of the meat industry so the down would exist anyway. And btw is is much more humane death than the hundreds that end up dying of the ingestion of microplastics.

And no, you can’t “mitigate the risk of plastics entering the water system” by making products such as jackets that constantly shed microplastics just by the act of making, wearing and washing them. True mitigation would be destruction of the plastic by isolation and degradation with plastic eating bacteria.
The PET ones are the worst ethically, they’ve proven that simply by wearing them, the microplastic particles can go airborne and lodge in your lungs. These airborne particles are easily washed into the water system next rainfall. Again, just by wearing an article of clothing or walking on a carpet made of PET.

I’m not saying down is completely ethical, but the solution of plastic jackets is actually less ethical than down. You’re fooling yourselves if you think you’re not causing animal suffering and death by buying a nylon jacket with polyester filling.

@GhostCurry

The only truly sustainable choice here is second hand. Every other option is a compromise.

Agree. Secondhand adds no more suffering or death if secondhand natural biodegradable fibres. Because all the suffering and death occur in the initial making of the item and to only a few animals.

But, Secondhand plastic based clothing adds more suffering and death because an older plastic product sheds more microplastics than a new one. With plastic the suffering and death happens for the years the item is in use and because microplastics never biodegrade, for thousands of years afterwards....on and on and on and on...impacting hundreds of lives, and now gone up the entire food chain and molecules of microplastics have been found in human organs (eg. Bisphenol A). It’s not a joke, these are cancer and infertility causing. So what we’ve put on animal populations in the marine environment is now affecting we humans too.
How can it therefore be ethical to buy and use a plastic fibre jacket filled with plastic artificial down?

Well I have gone right down a rabbit hole looking into this. We cannot use down for a few reasons, one of which is an allergy so I can swerve the ethical discussion but it is really hard to find no impact clothing. I would be very interested in any links other people have to share on low impact clothing.

Patagonia write a lot of good things about their research and indeed when they started using recycled plastic to make clothes, there was little known about the impact of microplastics.

And they say, buy only what you need, wear it often, wash it only when you must and use a mircro fibre catcher on your washing machine. They also readily admit that the starting point is the assumption that any production has an environmental impact.

I totally agree that second hand is best!!

But @PlanDeRaccordement, once the plastic has been made, the future impact of its micro components has been determined. It doesn't diminish because it is thrown away. An old garment does not shed more than a new one, in fact the first wash sheds the most. The potential for shedding remains at 100% of the weight of the garment.

I am not excusing the use of plastic in clothing but it is so difficult to find truly impact free clothing. Processing adds to energy consumption, cotton pollutes and dries up water sources, bleaching and dyeing also pollutes water sources.

@PlanDeRaccordement I find the argument that at least the ducks are alive pretty nuts as justification for using down. Yes they are alive but it’s not much of a life if they are subject to painful plucking.

I don’t eat meat so also don’t buy into the argument that it’s acceptable on the grounds of being a by-product. Interestingly that’s not often true of leather and leather often generates as much revenue as the meat, or more. I’m not sure if the figures for down but suspect it may be the same.

I also think you also need to keep in mind that many down coats will also use plastics - in the lining, shell and so on. So using down doesn’t guarantee avoidance of plastics and it’s not really the case that buying down means you can avoid all plastics pollution as you seem to be insinuating.

I’d rather stick to recycled materials and minimise the risk of plastics pollution in the materials I choose and how I handle and wash things, and agree a second hand is always a good option - not just in this case but generally.

@PlanDeRaccordement

Nothing with polyester filling is ethical because it constantly sheds microplastics into the environment. You may not want to use fully biodegradable down SHED naturally from ducks like we shed hair, butby buying “ethical” jackets made with artificial fabrics and filling like polyester you are in fact dooming innumerable fish, aquatic amphibians and mammals to a gory death from microplastic pollution. It is actually less ethical than using recycled or sustainably sourced down.

All true, and this is the sort of ethical tangle I get myself into every time I start researching something. Tbh, it's the reason that I usually prefer buying second hand. I really would prefer to support the companies who use naturally shed down but the prices really ere out of my range last time I looked. Recycled down does actually sound like the best of all worlds for me - I'll look into it.

(And by naturally shed, I mean SHED, not plucked.) I saw some companies which advertised this last time I looked into it but I didn't investigate further at the time.

I've scanned the thread - there have been some really great points raised and, as a PP said, it's difficult to be truly ethical in our clothing choices. Even second-hand clothing has its issues (though this is my usual go-to - I very rarely buy 'new' clothes).

I'll reply more later when I've had a chance to read everything through - thank you all so much for the though provoking replies.