➿ Fantastic Haircare: Making Sense and Science of the Curly Girl Method (thread 2)

[botemp]

Offshoot thread from the Fantastic Skincare threads to document the trials and tribulations in order to make sense and science of the curly girl method. We don't necessarily follow it to the letter and are even critical of it in places. Nor are we especially knowledgeable at this point but we're learning as we go. Feel free to join in as we attempt to approach this with an interest in ingredients and try to not buy everything that promises us magical things…

Useful blogs:

Curly Cailín on the golden triangle of healthy hair
Science-y Hair Blog
The Mestiza Muse
The Beauty Brains (podcast/blog)

Understanding ingredients:

Commonly found ingredients in haircare

Useful information about cosmetic chemistry

Porosity:

(video)

Removing build up:

Shampoos which remove product build up

Cationic compounds (of interest to those with buildup prone and/or fine hair):

Cationic compounds found in cosmetics

Polyquats (of interest to those with buildup prone and/or fine hair):

Polyquat buildup

To polyquats or not

Silicones, polyquats and soap

Another cosmetic ingredient to be afraid of?

Protein/Moisture balance:

(video)

Extract and proteins in CGM, a biochemist explains

(video)

Hygral Fatigue

SPF protection of your hair:

UV protectant ingredients

UV damage of hair (pubmed)

Summers sun and your hair

Rice water rinses:

Rice Water Rinse

Elasticity:

Is it too late to improve your elasticity

Managing elasticity and porosity in hair

Hard and soft water:

(video)

Hard water and your hair

Olaplex:

How does Olaplex hair treatment work

Frizz:

Hair frizz science

What's your frizz type

How to tame your hair based on frizz type

Flash Drying:

Flash Drying

Next level nerdery:

Chemical and Physical Behavior of Human Hair (cosmetic chemists' textbook)

Thank you someone. Can you layer your hair using this?

@SophieLion

Thank you someone. Can you layer your hair using this?

I don't use it for that. I do a double unicorn cut to put in the layers (I don't take too much off that way as I don't want too many layers) and then the plastic thing to shorten the length. And then I tidy it up curl by curl.

I'm thinking of taking some scissors to my hair. I think it's got too long and heavy and it's dragging the curls out. I'm rubbish at that sort of thing so I ought not, but I don't think I can wait until August!

I am having my roots done in 10 days and I'm thinking about asking her to trim the very lonvest layer. It's quite straggly. I don't believe the layers need touching - they were cut quite short in November (sorry about your recent experience Sophie).

I'm actually considering asking DH to trim the very ends off - he is more considered and careful than me. Also, like Bo I find mirrors very confusing. I guess I would need to buy some hairdressing scissors.

I am having it coloured in 10 days but I doube she will have time to trim it.

Pic of my bad cut and hair today... that's 9 months of growth, I'm pretty shocked at how much it has grown!

I got excited about a new curl salon much closer to me, but then I got the confirmation email. I've cancelled it. I'll ask my regular hairdresser to take an inch off the length when I have my colour next week and I'll keep trying to get an earlier (than August) appointment with Nuala.

Confirmation email (trained by Lorraine Massey):

I NEED YOUR HAIR CLEANSED, FREE OF PRODUCTS AND TANGLES so either the day before, or on the day of your appointment, please carry out the following to maximise your appointment time;

Throw away your shampoo (and low-poo/clarifying products!) Shampoo to curls is like weedkiller to plants!

Co-wash (Conditioner-Wash) your hair with conditioner ONLY- To clarify, yes this means to cleanse your hair with conditioner instead of shampoo or low poo

Finally got through to Nuala this morning and lo and behold they have a cancellation at 9am on Monday so I've bitten their arm off. Cannot wait.

For those who have been talking about cutting their own hair I've been cutting mine for years. I cut approx an inch off random curls when it's dry. It works well for me, so much better than the agony of hairdressers.
Even at the back I'll just choose a curl and cut about an inch off, by feel rather than using a mirror.
I never cut loads off in one go and I think that's the secret, so I never really have a full hair cut, just little bits off every month or so.
Curly hair is so forgiving I'd really recommend trying it! Having said that maybe I'm just a bit cavalier 😆

I just remembered that I originally watched a YouTube video about cutting your own hair, it was this one. I love her hair ❤️

It's been one year for me of CGM!

And Ninny, you are so lucky to be having your hair cut at the nuala moray salon. Been following her on IG. Day 3 hair today and it was a complete sweaty mess. Followed her refresh technique and it worked so well. I am so impressed!!!

But chances of me getting to Bristol are ZERO....!

I did an olaplex treatment and wow. That was definitely what my hair needed! It held its curl for 3 full days too with no refresh

Yes Sophie I'm very lucky and it's worth the 4 hour round trip.

I'm going to book a consult with Welshie Curl Girl. We've had a bit of a back and forth after I donated to her 'buy me a coffee' fund (which she doesn't shout about at all). She is so giving of her time and her following has grown massively as a result. I appreciate her. Anyway, we were talking about why my hair struggles to hold a gel cast and she said she favours foam these days. I just want to pick her brain for 15 minutes. She's the only one I would do this with.

How is everyone else doing?

Yes I would go too if it was that "close" ninny.

My hair is improving and much healthier but the last cut was a complete f**k up. He layered too much of the top and left the underneath too thin as a result so my ends look stringy now ( even after the 2cm I took off the bottom myself). And the layer is like a step. So still on the hunt for a hairdresser. I think the right cut makes the biggest difference.

Oh that's interesting re a consultation with Shosh. Let us know what she says! She comes across as lovely on IG. Do you think lack of a cast affects your end result?

Foam reminds me that I keep meaning to try my Pantene mousse. Been using treluxe serum and gel for quite a while now.

It was a really worthwhile half an hour I think Sophie. We dug into WHY I don't seem to get a cast, or if I do get a bit of one my curls drop within an hour or two. I'm quite settled and minimalist re products and routine but I am going:

• ditch Olaplex 3 as I don't need it (my local hairdresser said as much too)
• she's is going to recommend a clarifying shampoo with a certain ingredient to get rid of a certain type of build up as she said neither of my clarifying/chelating shampoos has that (can't remember name)
• I am going to stop deep conditioning for a bit
• she is going to recommend a conditioner with protein
• I am going to microplop BEFORE adding product (I plop straight after and half the gel probably comes off)
• I am going to try upright styling and sectioning my hair to apply product (I did this last night and I did get a cast, and I still had that cast this morning).

(I told her I was so put off protein after my attempt with a rice water rinse but we agreed it would be good to try again).

She is going to write to me later. She's so knowledgeable, I feel. You can tell she's really gone into the science of it all.

There was no hard sell on products at all. She said she'd give me her phone number and I can whatsapp her any time. Which I wouldn't!!

I think she deserves her success and her following. She does put out such good information.

Re the longer thinner layers at the back, I feel I've got a bit of that going on. It's a tough one as I know it sort of needs it, and it's my own fault for saying I wanted a shape like Powerdomi's. But I am toying with asking my regular hair dresser to lop that last later off when I go in 3 weeks for my colour...

@NinnyNewName was it disodium edta or something for clarifying?
I'm still back and forth between applying gel on wet hair or micro plop before, I struggle to see much difference!
Weirdly I get a cast very very easily, the only thing I didn't get one with was ecoslay Jell-O shot which is meant to be mega strong hold

Thats really interesting Ninny. Have been reading a lot recently that Olaplex not worth using unless you are making the colour of your hair significantly lighter. Debating whether to buy a new one when mine runs out. Intrigued by the new curlsmith bond product too.

What were you using for deep conditioning? I do modified rice water treatments with a bit of aphogee and the curl junkie protein mask but I don't really do a deep condition (moisture) anymore. I also don't micro plop at all (although squeeze water out before applying products so hair not dripping wet as otherwise end up with huge clumps) and stopped wet plopping as felt it gave me wonky curls (although I like the theory behind wet plopping - it makes sense to me).

Would you perhaps let us know which protein conditioner and the shampoo she recommends? I am using the Innersense colour radiance conditioner which has protein. Am wondering whether to try the Innersense pure harmony conditioner next time as I think it's slightly less moisturising .

Don't get me started on my hair cut. I was sooooooo annoyed as I specifically said "do NOT do this".....

Sophie I bought 2 products recommended by Welshiecurlgirl:

Shedid and Parish Deep Cleansing Shampoo
Curlsmiths 3 in 1 Conditioner

I've never heard of S&P.

Both arrived yesterday and I used them last night.

I also plopped before applying my single styler - Treluxe Gel.

I got a strong cast! And it lasted until this morning. And I've had the best wash day I've had in ages. Could be a fluke, but I found the whole process with Shosh really useful and at £30 for half an hour it was worth it.

Also, I hope Bo is okay.

Thanks for the update Ninny. Great news about the cast and wash day.

I think I've "seen" bo recently on the Parisian clothes thread (which I follow but don't post on). Perhaps she's just bored of hair!

Sorry I've been away on holiday but this thread had also moved all the way down on my watch list so I hadn't noticed it has been active.

I am a bit bored with my hair though, that's true, not doing much new although it's been a bit dry (contemplating buying a humidifier as skin seems to be affected too, but so many choices) so have started using the Bounce Curl clump cream again. Quite thankful as it was just sitting there going unused and it does the job. Also found a use for the Innersense LIC, on day 3/4 it works quite well on ends after I've brushed through my hair before plaiting it.

On the gel/foam thing, I'm not a big fan of the gel anymore either. I have the opposite problem though, it sticks too well and is really difficult to get off. I'll try and use up the gels I have (Treluxe and Innersense) in the summer but won't repurchase any.

I've also started microneedling my scalp after my derm recommended it (about every 3-4 weeks) and that seems to have really been paying off for me, though I haven't been doing it for so long (maybe 3 or 4 times now) so I really don't think I should be seeing any results but it looks and feels a lot better around my scalp and I think my hair looks fuller 🤷 I think it's just that the hairs are able to stand up better.

I tried the Innersense pure conditioner Sophie, it was too heavy for me but it's supposed to be the lightest one in their line.

Also curious what the ingredient was that was needed in a clarifying shampoo, Ninny?

This post she did explains it.

Yes, I get what you mean re being bored of the hair stuff. I'm looking for more consistency. Taking Shosh's advice definitely seems to be helping.

Hi Bo, hope you enjoyed your holiday! I do like the BC clump cream. I find it very useful for refreshing individual curls and I love the smell. However, bought a new Jessicurl spiralicious gel and got a scented one and wish I hadn't - not a nice smell at all.

Thanks for the Innersense pure feedback. That's what I thought it was: the lightest one. I might try it. What conditioner do you use Bo?

Also when I find my skin getting dry (I think it's the tret as need to use it a lot to keep spots under control), really upping my water intake helps (and I drink quite a bit anyway). Just a thought - you're probably doing that already.

I'm still on the hunt for a salon here and went to a chat to a salon in the centre this morning and it sounds really promising. He immediately explained (in a nice way) what was wrong with my existing cut and seemed to know his stuff so perhaps next month I will try there.

I can't fully read that image Ninny, I can sort of make up the contours but still none the wiser exactly which ingredient you needed. Although I think there are some surfactants missing from the middle column like sodium polystyrene sulfonate which is the most effective at removing quat buildup but you don't find it in a lot of products. I've been looking at one from living proof but reviews are mixed and I still have some clarifying shampoo (it doesn't exactly go quickly).

I use the Rahua hydration conditioner Sophie, also has a nice amount of protein, I find, but is lighter than Innersense which suits me best.

And, yes, I drink plenty of water already, it's just from being indoors I think and outdoors being very different right now. I hope the new salon delivers for you. My salon now has a special curly person who comes in once a week, I'm not convinced yet, she's only been cutting a few years and charges double the normal amount. Considering my one time at a curly hairdresser was a disaster I'm not all that enthused but I might book an appointment on the day she's there so I can observe if it's any good.

Yes I was sure you drink plenty of water bo. I've just noticed recently that unless I am drinking a ridiculous amount then my skin gets dry and I get (what I call) aeroplane spots (aka spots caused by dehydration).

I'll have a look at the rahua condtioner. Thanks.

Actually for the potential curly hairdresser, the prices are really reasonable (cheaper than other rubbish hairdressers I've been too). I've booked an appointment so he can try to sort out the f*ck up from last cut..... it's been two months and I think some of layers have grown a bit

Got my hair cut! An actual curly girl cut
So she cut a fair bit off to get the vague shape, washed, applied products, diffused and then cut it again
I'm really pleased

Looks really good queen paw! What type of cut did you ask for? She doesn't look like she has put layers in - or long ones only?

I've got my cut tomorrow and crossing all my fingers that it won't be another disaster.....

How did they get the curls looking so uniform? I'm used to yours being a bit tighter and more defined at the roots , Queen. It looks very well cut.

Hope your cut is good too, tomorrow, Sophie. I need to do a trim myself, actually, my fringe is no longer a fringe tbh.