➿ Fantastic Haircare: Making Sense and Science of the Curly Girl Method (thread 2)

[botemp]

Offshoot thread from the Fantastic Skincare threads to document the trials and tribulations in order to make sense and science of the curly girl method. We don't necessarily follow it to the letter and are even critical of it in places. Nor are we especially knowledgeable at this point but we're learning as we go. Feel free to join in as we attempt to approach this with an interest in ingredients and try to not buy everything that promises us magical things…

Useful blogs:

Curly Cailín on the golden triangle of healthy hair
Science-y Hair Blog
The Mestiza Muse
The Beauty Brains (podcast/blog)

Understanding ingredients:

Commonly found ingredients in haircare

Useful information about cosmetic chemistry

Porosity:

(video)

Removing build up:

Shampoos which remove product build up

Cationic compounds (of interest to those with buildup prone and/or fine hair):

Cationic compounds found in cosmetics

Polyquats (of interest to those with buildup prone and/or fine hair):

Polyquat buildup

To polyquats or not

Silicones, polyquats and soap

Another cosmetic ingredient to be afraid of?

Protein/Moisture balance:

(video)

Extract and proteins in CGM, a biochemist explains

(video)

Hygral Fatigue

SPF protection of your hair:

UV protectant ingredients

UV damage of hair (pubmed)

Summers sun and your hair

Rice water rinses:

Rice Water Rinse

Elasticity:

Is it too late to improve your elasticity

Managing elasticity and porosity in hair

Hard and soft water:

(video)

Hard water and your hair

Olaplex:

How does Olaplex hair treatment work

Frizz:

Hair frizz science

What's your frizz type

How to tame your hair based on frizz type

Flash Drying:

Flash Drying

Next level nerdery:

Chemical and Physical Behavior of Human Hair (cosmetic chemists' textbook)

Postage would be insane, I'm sure. Maybe your curly buddy would appreciate it, Sophie? I'm not on FB, and with the scandal I'm not comfortable selling it on anyhow. I didn't pay that much for it so I'm not losing any sleep over it.

I've seen some very impressive hand transformation with fillers and laser Ninny. The latter for age spots and visibility of veins mostly. Although the filler really seems to depend on practitioner and your hand type as some can look a little extraterrestrial after the extra volume on the back of hand in contrast with long slender fingers looks a bit weird IMO. It's very expensive IIRC as you need loads of it.

Despite being prone to eczema on my hands, they've held up pretty well with all the extra hand washing so far. I have a really well balanced soap and it seems to do the job well, alcoholic gel in shops also seems much improved to what it used to be. I do hear from a lot of people they hate the look of their hands atm, I'm sure it's because of all the extra hand washing. I know K beauty has some plumping hand sheet masks, might make a difference.

Thank you Bo. I don't think I'd bother with any treatments. Certainly not ones that need repeating often. I'm too lazy. It's more just coming to accept it because let's face it, it's going to get worse.

I have always been really skeptical of gadgets for the face. Granted I've never really looked into them. Will follow with interest.

No curly friend here doesn't what the innersense gel either (I hardly sold it to her though with my description of it ).

Did your foreo arrive bo? I watched the video and the eyebrow thing freaked me a bit. Not sure I want that effect.... did she say it also targets fine lines? She mentioned something a the beginning about it toning the muscle and something to do with the skin.

Yes it just arrived thankfully it had already crossed the channel well before all the teenage mutant ninja covid happened.

I looked at some other videos of that vlogger and her left eyebrow seems to just be overpronounced like that to begin with, so thankfully mine probably won't be that dramatic. I don't really know about fine lines, the science around it is iffy. I doubt it does anything permanent but what I can best tell from before and afters is that it makes you more symmetrical or rather as symmetrical as you were in your prime and that tends to read as more youthful/better looking.

Back to hair: I was watching this 'review' (paid for) yesterday about the scientific lab analysis of your hair. Thought it would be US/Canada only but you can get it elsewhere too. Must say I'm quite intrigued, but I'm a spendthrift at the moment so am easily seduced and I'm wondering at this point if it will reveal that much.

Collected my hand made silk lined woolly hat this morning. It's perfect. Lots of room to put hair up into it and also looks good down.

(She originally lined it all the way to the edge, but when she tried it on it rustled against her ears).

The hat is lovely ninny! Good that it's comfortable.

I watched the video Bo and entered the competition on IG to win a free hair analysis. The girl was surprised about her hair texture but apart from Porosity (which I do have some ideas), I think I've got my hair.

Did you try the foreo?

That's silk dupioni though, I wonder if there's any specific advantages to silk satin as that seems to be used for everything (and tends to be much more costly).

Yeah, Sophie, I wouldn't think her hair was very coarse either and now it has me thinking as my hair has similar characteristics (heat and hair dye don't really damage it all that much) and I'm wondering if mine is too now. I like to think I have it all figured out but that video has got me pondering.

Yes, the Foreo has been tried and I'm really pleased with it. I took before and after pictures for the first run and there's noticeable difference there so I'm not imagining it. Mostly it looks like you've had a really good facial, really lifted and healthful without the redness and puffiness (at least that's what I look like after a facial) where the light hits your face in a very aesthetically pleasing way where you look taut and bouncy. It's quite impressive for such a short amount of time and it feels nice to use, especially on the forehead as it tingles through your entire scalp and feels a bit like a quick cranial massage. Eyebrows do lift a bit but nowhere near as extreme as on that aestheticism, I did gain a smidge on my hooded eyes which is something to get used to, might need to contemplate playing around with eye makeup for the occasion.

*aesthetician

Yes I must say when I went to collect it I was a bit surpised at the lining Bo as it wasn't what I was expecting. It seems to be okay but I only wore it for a relatively short while yesterday. She's very thritfy so I suspect she was trying to save money, but I had said that that wasn't too much of an issue. I guess I'll just see how I go with it and ask her to reline it if necessary?

In every other respect I love it.

Had a good wash day today. I tried the travel sized Curlsmith souffle and I think I like it.

Also, I actually though it was shantung when I saw it but that appears different to dupioni.

Many thanks for the update Bo. Does the foreo have a small attachment for the eye area like the nuface does? (Sorry I am being lazy as I could just research it all but the days seem to fly by at the moment as so busy and not managed it yet).

The video you sent the other day does make it look simple to use so am seriously contemplating it (although look fantastic for greece doesn't sell the foreo bear - must see where else it is available).

Merry Christmas everyone 🌲☃️

Sophie, no attachment, you can get the mini version for more targeted areas like eyes but tbh I can get my bear pretty close around the eyes and I wouldn't comfortably want it closer. Nuface also has an extra small one, it's like the size of a pen if you only want to target that area but I think the microcurrent effect is probably more a sum of things than the smaller areas by themselves.

I think it's sold out on Lookfantastic, I bought mine from Cult Beauty, they do worldwide shipping, free for most of Europe, I think. I had a discount that worked on it.

Back to hair, I tried out a new product yesterday (even though I wasn't buying new stuff 🙈) but I ordered a sort of leave in from Rahua from the same hydration line, it's supposed to be a detangler and UV protector that's the final step (and I used it as that). I got the travel size to get free shipping on something else and am really pleased with it, just worked it through and left to air dry, not the perfect CGM type aesthetic but very nice relaxed vacation hair with no effort and it dries much quicker than with gel, etc. so I'm very impressed with it and happy to have a low maintenance option.

Just wanted to pop on and wish you all a very happy New Year! 🎉🥳 Like everyone else, am very happy to see the back of 2020 (although some good things did happen, they were marred by everything else). Hope those in the UK are keeping safe - the number of cases there is frightening.

Thanks for the info Bo. Yes I had looked at all the attachments for the nuface. Probably being a bit dim but what did you mean by "I think the microcurrent effect is probably more a sum of things than the smaller areas by themselves."?

Hoping to find time to research the foreo bear a bit now. Are you managing to use it every day? Any results yet?

My treluxe products arrived. I will do a chelating wash this weekend and then try them out. Also got a silk lined hat but it's been really warm here ! I'm not convinced it won't squash my curls to be honest. Fit is fine otherwise but I think hard to protect curls should be a bit more generous size-wise.

Meant to ask ninny: I remember you were struggling to get a gel cast a while ago. What do you think was the problem in the end? Did the aveda hairdresser discuss this at all with you? I normally get an extremely hard cast with the treluxe but last wash got barely any. Puzzled by this!

Sophie, I meant that the smaller devices that target one specific spot probably aren't noticeable in terms of overall effect the way a device is that treats the whole face. I've not noticed drastic effects since first trying it (it mostly just maintains that slightly 'lifted' look I saw after first trying it, the light continues to hit my face in a pleasing way, basically) but I keep getting told I look really well and Zen. I've managed to keep it up really well, I actually use it longer than the 3min programme as I quite enjoy the sensation of it.

Not Ninny, but my experience with gels not creating a cast usually meant IME that oil/occlusive heavy products hadn't been absorbed properly so the gel didn't have the ability to attach to hair properly. Sometimes it was just the gel, but clarifying usually solved it for me, but when it really wouldn't cast after clarifying with a gel that had been a good caster previously, that's when I found out about polyquat buildup and removing that fixed it.

I also came on to say Happy New Year to you all. This thread and the hair "journeys" have been an absolute joy during what continues to be a really shitty time. Thank you all .

Yes, things are very scary here in the UK. We keep hearing about hospitals being at capacity. Amazing how many people have just given up on the rules though.

My boys are doing A Levels and GCSEs this year so that's a worry. But both prefer home schooling so I'm hoping they can do that, but of course for many kids they don't have enough tech or food or they're not safe at home, so I don't wish for home schooling lightly.

My eldest is looking for a part-time job but of course there is nothing, especially for someone with no experience. So many businesses have closed.

How are things where you are Sally and Bo?

Then there's the whole Brexshit coming to a close .

Back to hair then ...

Sophie I got to the point where a cast forms on the top and middle layers, but very rarely underneath. I suspect that's either lazy application (although I start upside down and I glaze all over the underneath) or the fact that as I move my head around whilst it's drying it just scrunches out. I have a new step I've added to diffusing: I rest the diffuser between my shoulder and ear and tilt my head right over that side so that it hits the underneath layers. I also go to bed with it without SOTC but usually the act of getting it into a pineapple gets rid of what little cast is left by that stage. When I wake up I rarely have any crunch (I toss and turn in the night a fair bit). I just give the roots a fluff.

I am only pineappling for sleep. I rarely wear the silk bonnet. What are others doing?

Had such a good wash day yesterday. I used Olaplex then the Aveda Sap Moss conditioner which I left on with a cap for 20 minutes. Then I applied Giovanni LIC and Innersense I Create Hold gel, both over the bath with soaking wet hair. Then I used a hairbrush to brush from underneath, then shook sections of the hair to help form bigger clumps, then squished gently, plopped for 10 minutes, diffused.

The brushing and shaking was something I got from mymanecurls on IG. She's in the middle of the US so completely different climate, but I think she has has very similar to hair to me so I thought I'd try this technique.

You called her Sally again 🙈🙊

It's not that bad here but not great either. We've been in lockdown longer with knowledge Christmas and NYE are not times to gather which I think made it a lot less of a pain. And lockdown end date was an at least till date, so when they inevitably announced they're extending it, it'll be no surprise. Hospitals are at tipping point but we have the option to send ICU patients to Germany who have larger capacity, but it's overall coming at the cost of regular and emergency care which is not good.

Our Covid minister is a bit of an underperforming shit who loves courting media and doing lots of slightly apolitical TV programs that are more fluff and photo ops that scarily look like stock photography. It's disturbing. He has so far buggered the test and trace system rollout and now is buggering up the vaccine programme rollout so we're the last in Europe to start and they're not listening to scientific advice of who gets priority it's just getting beyond embarrassing at this point. He made a big show and dance about stepping down as party leader for upcoming elections in spring because he can't be the Covid minister and political leader at the same time and isn't he so selfless blah blah. Nah, he wouldn't be able to stand up to scrutiny in the debates, from moderators and opposition, and it would cost the party a lot of votes.

I don't have that much issue with the government as a whole, the coalition contains two liberal parities (not the American definition, vaguely the JS Mill variant, they're centre left and centre right with a few differences) and they've been quite keen to keep civil liberties intact (sometimes by choice and often by fairly watertight law) and encourage good behaviour through incentive as opposed to enforce with severe authority and that has worked to an extent but I think, like elsewhere, everyone is just sick of it so the limits of participation are reaching.

Back to hair, yes, I've been experimenting with brushing too. Mostly to brush it up and out of the scalp if that makes sense so it doesn't all stick together and that gives the end results a lot more body and 'air'. I do it before plopping, then after plopping I brush water through the ends to get that to clump again, then apply gel. Ive mostly been enjoying the lighter approach the Rahua leave in detangler/UV product is giving me, I used mousse over it last time and had really nice results, easy sort of beachy hair. And it was actually easy, just scrunched in both products and left to air dry, and dries substantially quicker with all the products.

Do you know what was funny Bo?! As I was typing I was remembering all those times when I typed Sallie and laughing to myself and I was thinking "thank goodness I've not done THAT for a while". Clearly I just then typed Sallie. Apologies Sophie. I promise I know your name!!

Brains are funny sometimes Ninny, no harm done, surely? It could be worse, I worked with someone who kept calling me a completely different name (I apparently reminded them of another person they once knew with that name). I stopped correcting them after a while as it just didn't matter but then others started randomly correcting on my behalf and it went a bit mental as they started accusing everyone of gaslighting them and workplace bullying and it all got a bit insane until forced to acknowledge on the back of seeing my ID that I really did have a different name 🤷

Tell me about it Bo. First day back at work after 10 days off and omg the fog. I've even slacked off relearning French via Duolingo, and using my brain training app for 5 minutes a day. The difference is astounding!

Gosh, that all sounds a bit extreme! How funny that I have no idea what your actual name is.

Perhaps I should change my name to SallieLion??!!!

Re the foreo: surely the full effects kick in after some weeks/months of use? Foreo research is top of my to do list now!

Thanks both re the gel cast. I had squished to condish a lot (which I find also minimises the amount of conditioner I need to use) and then was trying the technique of not rinsing out all conditioner instead of using a LIC. Perhaps that was the problem.... seems it might be from what you say Bo.

Good luck with the exam years Ninny. We've been in full lockdown since beginning of November and cases have dropped (although yesterday rose a bit again to 1000). They will see after NYE and make the decision about the schools. That's what bothers me the most.

For sleep ninny, I have a bonnet and a silk pillowcase. Normally just pineapple with the pillowcase as I don't like sleeping with something on my head. Generally it's fine.

Hello lovely curly haired people.
I've been on the other thread under a different name and occasionally pop up on threads about nuface, although I've recently traded mine in for a Rio.
This thread is very timely for me as I've just started wearing my shoulder length gray 2c curls curly again. I'm really struggling to get any moisture into the bottom five inches and I have super in curl frizz.
I'm working my way through the thread with notebook in hand after wasting money on the kerastase foam and the Umberto Giannini shampoo.
I've been silicone and sulfate free for a few years now but never found the right combination of products for my hair.
@botemp I wondered what conductive product you use with the foreo bear?

Welcome Dame. I assume your hair isn't coloured? What condition are those bottom few inches in? Did you uses to straighten it? It might just need a good chop?

Have you tried the bowl method? I think Powerdomi on IG uses it sometimes. I think the idea is to place a ball under your hair whilst conditioning it and then using the caught contents to pour over your head/dip your ends in. I've not tried it myself.

Dame, I use Parker Labs Spectra Gel 360 as it's salt free. Unfortunately, you have to wash it off after so I'll look for something else soon. Probably will get the Nuface microcurrent gel, it's relatively well priced.

Have you thought about olaplex, apparently the new combination of 0 followed by 3 (both CGM friendly) is really good for 2a-3a hair, the waves really love it for holding curl and getting the ends to fall in line with the rest of hair.

Hello DameCelia and welcome to the thread! I'm still getting to grips with my own hair so not sure I can be much help!!

What products to use generally relates to the density of the hair and the thickness of the strands as well as the porosity (although the latter is quite confusing to figure out).

For the ends of your hair, as ninny and bo say, getting the hair hydrated and also strengthening it from within should help. I find the curly Cailin blog (please google as I can't remember the web address) very good for advice about where to start and products to use etc.