So much size 12 shaming around and it saddens me

[Littlemeadow123]

Seriously, what is wrong with being a size 12 or 14? Read an article in a heauty column the other day where the journalist claims that she flung a jumper down and stormed out of the shop in tears because it was a size 10 and didn't fit. Is the idea of trying on a size 12 really that horrendous? Does she not realize that sizes differ between shops anyway?

I'm a size 12, which according to a lot of people would put me in the overweight category. They dont seem to consider different body shapes at all.

There is nothing wrong with being bigger than a size 16 or 18 either but when they see size 12s and 14s being shamed they must feel awful about themselves at times as well.

I think the issue some people take umbrage with is a size 12 automatically = overweight. I certainly know short people who would be too heavy with a 30" waist & taller people who would look gaunt smaller than that. Admittedly though I do tend to have a taller than average circle of family & friends which skews my views.

I think clothes size is meaningless these days. I'm a healthy BMI (just about anyway at 23.5) and short. I can be anything from a 8 to a 12 depending where I shop, and anything from an xs to a m. It's crazy and very annoying.

I am a wee bit fatter than I'd like if I'm honest. But I am healthy and I exercise so don't worry too much. My weight has been roughly the same since I was in my 20s (now in 50s).

The height the cause of health problems is excess fat around you internal organs because it effects their function. Once you hit 80cm (unless there is something unusual about you body e.g. pregnancy) your risk of lifes Diseases jumps massively. While obviously your build will have an effect of what size you can wear healthily (because that depends also on your shoulder width, hip width etc. The the waist circumference risks are the same for all women because there is no skeletal impact in that area and every has organs roughly the same size.

I think the issue some people take umbrage with is a size 12 automatically = overweight

Well I was responding to the poster who said a size 12 definitely isn’t overweight. Of course not all size 12’s are overweight. Not all size 12’s are a healthy weight either.

It’s definitely not automatically overweight, because I am tall and have an exaggerated hour glass figure I can be top end of healthy in a twelve (but waists will always be too loose). But most people don’t have the kind of frame that result in wide back/hip etc measurements but a safe waist measurement.

www.nhs.uk/common-health-questions/lifestyle/why-is-my-waist-size-important/

Info on the 80cm for anyone who is interested.

I get you now @Velveteenfruitbowl I think aiming for under 80cms is sensible for everyone. I prefer myself with a 29" waist at my height whereas if I was short I would want it to be smaller.

I'm a size18. When I was younger I was very slim and often got comments about being anorexic, which I was not. But even then I was a size 12. Different women have different body shapes and the over use of anything above a size 10 meaning you a fat/ obese really annoys me. No wonder so many people have body issues. Can't we all stop fat shaming people. I'm bigger now, but you know what, I'm happy with my body. Not everyone has to fit into the same mould.

I've recently last 1.5stone so my size 14 clothes are loose and I'm a 10-12. During my size 14 days, many of my 12s fitted but now they fit better and today I'm wearing my size 14 denim skirt and it rests on my hips. I'm a healthy weight but hour glass.

Dress size isn't a clear indication of healthy and many wear clothes in a size too small for them (if my local supermarket is anything to go by)!

"Vanity sizing". Is it though? Or is it just more realistic sizing now we are in an age of a better and more accessible variety of nutritious foods?
It's shifting the numbers so people can feel good about themselves and keep purchasing.
It's all about getting people to spend more money and people will spend more money when they're made to feel good / the product solves a problem they didn't know they had.

Why do you think H&M gets so much stick from bigger women always whining about how H&M sizes are too small (hello annual skinny jeans half way up thighs post)? Because they can go to other shops and be told they're a size X and they've decided they look healthy and average because they're not as big as some other people. They go to a shop with smaller fits and suddenly get mortified and cross because it challenges the idea of what number they think they are.

Yes, we have more nutritious food, but we are also eating much bigger portion sizes and the rise of processed food and rise of ready meals and convenience food isn't nutritious. Diabetes I think is also on the rise. Lifestyles on the whole are more sedentary too. Average is now overweight.

There's an increasing attitude to people who take an interest in health and fitness that it's basically an eating disorder to plan your food and watch your portions (but totally ok if you jump from slimming world to weight watchers and diet to diet).

There's also the rubbishing of BMI which is fashionable at the moment. It's not a perfect tool for everyone, and had flaws for genuine outliers, but the people who spend half their time arguing that it's totally rubbish and says nothing about health are usually people who have BMIs that say they're overweight (because they can't be overweight as they're the same size as other people in the street and they see people much larger).

On the whole there's quite a defensiveness around weight and size where it's better and more comforting to minimise issues.

I also shop quite a bit in Net-a-porter & Matches etc & like French brands, generally I find a 12 fits me well.

@LolaSmiles that's a very good post. It's a fact that many of us are overweight or obese and it is not a good thing, the health implications are serious. I think perceptions have got really skewed.

@LolaSmiles I agree to a point with the exception of H&M - their sizing is odd. I'm genuinely a size 10-12 (old clothes from 15 years ago still fit) and I'm slap bang in the middle of the healthy bmi zone yet in H&M I've been a 16. My waist is 27inches.

I'm really interested in the 80cms waist thing.

When you get older it gets really tough to sustain a small waist, even if you're slim elsewhere.

ghostofharrenhal
It's true and in addition to rubbishing fairly standard ways of assessing the fact people are bigger, eating more, doing less, we have to deal with one off anecdotes full of silly non-logic like "yeah but my friend is a size 0 and eats takeaway and I'm a size 16 and eat healthy choices so that proves that there's nothing unhealthy about being bigger", "I don't really do exercise because my dad knows someone who does triathlon and he had a heart attack at 57 so it's not like all that exercise helped him".

Or failing that, call "fat shaming".

m0therofdragons
Whereas I've gained weight and am still apparently still XS/S (when I was smaller I was a S).
I think they cut some items narrower, but it's always the skinny jeans thing that makes me laugh. It's like "person with clearly hour glass figure and larger thighs, hips and bum walks into shop known for slightly narrower tailoring, goes to try on pair of jeans in the smaller end of what they like to wear and then takes photos and whines about how the whole experience was fat shaming and damaging to her self esteem". I can't help but roll my eyes at the whole attention seeking drama llama-ness of it all.
I like fat face, but I don't bother trying their trousers as I know they aren't cut for my frame. I don't moan about it

I'm definitely overweight in a 12 - I'm about a 12 when fractionally under 80kg which puts my BMI at about 28... overweight!

I have a narrow frame - 28 back in bras even with some "padding" on my ribs - so suspect I should be an 8 at my slim weight - but haven't been fit/slim in years.

I was in a 16 in standard (if stretchy) clothes at 9 months pregnant, including yoga pants and shorts.

Part of this is I carry a lot of weight on my boobs (30L when last measured, CBA to measure at the moment but my 28Ks now pass the band test and the cup overflows) and have chunky legs - but mostly my frame is small so I have more space for padding in a specific size!

My (tall but skinny) was wearing ladies size 8 - 10 in year 6. As an adult woman she is never going to be anything but at least a 12. It infuriates me that this sort of ridiculous judgement might affect her happiness.

I'm 5'6", and am a size 8 with a 26 inch waist for jeans, but dresses I buy in a size 12 because my shoulders are quite broad and I wear a size 28FF bra. Clothes size means nothing. I weigh 10 stones which puts me in the high range for BMI, I could so easily tip into overweight. Most people are shocked at my weight, but I regularly work out, and eat a healthy diet, with occasional treats. By occasional I mean once or twice a week, not in between every meal as is the norm these days. I was brought up on the idea that sweets are only eaten once a week and cake is not an every day thing, vegetables were to be eaten before leaving the table etc. I can't stand processed food. Yet I've been accused of having an eating disorder.

And I'm 52. So I don't agree it's impossible to maintain a healthy waist size. It's on,y hard if we eat a lot of sugar and more carbs than we need for activity levels.

she flung a jumper down and stormed out of the shop in tears

She sounds mentally unbalanced.

I've always been a size 10, recently crept into a 12 but have lost a stone recently And back into 10s...when I did slimming world and was another stone lighter than current weight I was a size 8...yet I'm currently half a stone overweight according to bmi...

Vanity sizing is real.

Codswollop it may be but nhs still uses it

Cerseilannisterinthesnow
There are issues for extreme outliers such as athletes, the very young/old and a healthy BMI can mask some predispositions to conditions in some ethnicities, but for most people it's a fairly reasonable assessment.

If your BMI is 25 Vs 24 it's probably neither here nor there and it's worth being aware you're on the larger side of healthy, but a BMI of 27-30 is overweight unless you're an athlete who is bulking up.
Somehow I don't think most people who say it's rubbish all fall in the outlier categories

It’s probably impossible to be obese (bmi greater than 30) because of being athletic or muscular if you’re a woman. A very, very few men have managed it (think Arnie in his prime). Women powerlifters might just get into the overweight category (25-30) due to muscle. Women athletes are almost never overweight. Serena Williams has a BMI in the healthy (non overweight) range.

BMI actually tends to skew towards telling women they’re a healthy weight when they’re carrying too much fat. I’m a healthy BMI at around 23 but my waist measurement is only just under the 80cm and I have plenty of fat I can grab around my waist and belly. I’m working on it, mostly by doing resistance training to build up my muscles and reduce fat, as well as watching what I eat.

Having a high BMI isn’t a moral failing, but nor is it “fat shaming” to point out that it correlates to some bad health outcomes. The NHS and all reputable medical authorities use it as it’s the best tool we have.

Isn't this a height debate?