The Demise of the High Street

[Sarcelle]

With the news of the Debenhams closures plus all the other chains that have shut up shop for good, its clear that the High Street is facing monumental hurdles if they are to survive.

Do you think the High Streets can be revived, and what should facilitate that?

My Debenhams is not on the closure list (yet) and the big space left by BHS has just reopened as H & M. But the whole street has become downbeat, lots of these phone unlocking shops, charity shops, poundshops and coffee chains.

I used to be a spendthrift, reformed now, so I no longer like shopping very much. But when I do the High Street no longer has much to offer me (middle aged woman). Everything seems bad quality. There is a role for Primark but now a lot of shops are following that model, cheap, disposable, man made. I can't remember the last time I bought clothes in M & S, their offer is dire, nothing appeals, surely I am the epitome of their core customer.

There must be something that can be done to attract good quality shops otherwise areas will have no centre or hub, and that will surely make us a more fractured society. Ideas?

i always find it odd when people are interviewed about a high st name closing and they wail and nash their teeth ...when in fact it is the public/shoppers that cause the demise...vast majorities of people now prefer to shop online..so it is very hypocritical to moan about the high street names going bust when very few of us actually shop in them anymore

Debenhams makes me sad for the staff but I've never liked it as a chain so can't manage to be too bothered about its demise. I do love my House of Fraser's makeup hall though, and do shop there, so would be sad to see that go.

I live in SE London and are spoilt for choice, but my parents live near a small town in Northamptonshire and it's pants. Apart from Waitrose, Tesco, and a semi-decent New Look there is eff-all else. Most of it's inhabitants cross the county boundary to a bigger town further away, which has succeeded in retaining some of its oldest shops (including a reasonably priced toy shop and bookshop ) alongside a butchers and a decent bakery. The market on Saturdays is brilliant. My parents get there for free too, kn their national bus pass so win-win.

@findingmyfeet12 yes I totally agree - that ship has sailed

Our high street has a lot of empty shops.

Why doesn't the owners of properties reduce the rent , get them occupied and get rent albeit at lower amount.

I hate clothes shopping online I need to see and feel the outfits.

You still need people who can afford to rent the shop, buy stock, pay staff, pay for insurance, advertising, utilities, etc etc though @rosedream .... it just costs a fortune, and generally in clothing retail the retailer will be buying the stock for roughly half of what they're selling it for. That makes the risks pretty high when you factor in all their other costs. Running a shop is prohibitively expensive and too risky for most people

I agree with those PP who say they never go shopping, particularly for clothes, home stuff or tat like Tiger. I just don't want or need it and if I do have a specific need, say for new sheets or real cotton tops, it is much easier to find those online.

I do know how hard it is for small business owners though, particularly due to business rates. A friend had to give up her shop a couple of years ago because the latest increase in business rates meant that she was basically operating just to keep her staff employed. Another small gym owner told me that he is paying business rates of £50k pa(!). Add to that staff costs and the costs of a full repairing and insuring business lease and you just wouldn't would you?

There is a small run of shops near me which does seem to be doing OK thought I don't think anyone is getting rich - two cafes, a delicatessen/bakers, a butcher, a laundry/dry cleaners, a newsagents and a Londis, which is also the post office. I do use all those shops and so do all my neighbours because they provide things we actually need as averse to discretionary purchases, which I think everyone has cut back on.

Live in a smallish city and it’s the same thing: ie coffee shops, nail bars, charity shops. Sad to see Debenhams go but it’s been a long time since its heyday. As a young ‘un I used to love browsing and trying on the ‘testers’ of cosmetics and perfume, and still have a very eighties ‘bling’ pair of Monet earrings. These days I shop for clothes at vintage fairs, charity shops and Ebay. What’s left of the high street is too samey. Smaller indie shops need to be more of a feature, especially in towns. We need to get back to the traditional trades too; it’s becoming rare to see a good ironmongers, wool shop or butchers shop.

It's all a bit self fulfilling - I would much rather buy in a shop, try it on feel the fabric have the instant gratification of buying something there and then but lately the number of times I'm in a shop and they don't have my size, the shade of foundation I want etc etc I just end up going home and ordering on line.

Add in to that the online discounts that are available but aren't in stores. I love a day shopping with my friends, lunch, coffees glass of wine, walk round the shops, I think it's really sad.

The shocking increase in business rates is, in part, due to the Tory refusal to raise domestic council tax. I’m fairly sure that council tax increases are limited to an absolutely tiny percentage by law now, so council funding shortfall (horrific these days) must be made up elsewhere. Step forward business rates, except now they are so high no one can afford to run a business.

Many of you won’t realise it, but many of the pension companies own shipping centres. So, if they reduce rents, pensioners with these companies (annuities) will get a worse deal. Be careful what you wish for. It would be better to convert surplus space to housing.

It's interesting thinking about how my shopping habits have changed. I still pop into John Lewis / H&M and TK Maxx in my lunch hour but mostly out of habit. Every couple of weeks I walk 30 minutes to a neighbourhood with some independents and some erratic but occasionally inspired charity shops. It's made shopping a real pleasure again. I can't find everything I need there but to fill the gaps I've started browsing online for ideas and then a couple times a year, I travel 30-40 miles to a decent city centre.

I disagree about the convenience of online shopping. I know it has some advantages, especially if you have small children or other caring commitments (as lots of people on here do). But personally I'm tired of not being able to see fabric quality or even colours properly, of having to order everything in two sizes, of tying up money, sometimes for several weeks at a time, only to find out it doesn't look anything like how it looked on the online photos and then traipsing to the post office / Hermes drop off. None of that is convenient for me.

I've not given up online shopping completely but I do it less and less (last time was in the Christmas sales). Even my son, who thinks I'm a dinosaur, realised when he had to buy a suit recently that sometimes there's no substitute for real shops.

It's not so long ago that we thought out of town malls were the future and look what's happened to them. High streets do need to adapt but they've done it before and I think they can do it again.

Shopping centres!!!

Yes, they can adapt but they need to open longer, or have several late nights and late starts to compensate staff, have a better mix of restaurants (not the usual names), put on fashion shows, music events and entertainment for DC as well as having an assortment of shops. They also need to be smaller.

Visited a city near us earlier today, lovely old place with lovely buildings. Many shops have shut and the outskirts have empty buildings.

I visited the M&S, the one nearest to us closed last year, they have too many clothes, they should cut back to better more more expensive things, I don't mean £500 dresses, just things that will wear and look better. Many were nasty colours and did not look well made. The lingerie department was a sea of bras many in nasty colours, do customers really want such a variety - there were so many it was confusing.

Our high street is shite-there’s hardly anything in it and the parking is exorbitant and hard to come by. The council are currently selling off a large car park to building ANOTHER cinema on. We have a large multiplex cinema and don’t need another one. Nobody will be able to park to come and shop let alone visit this second cinema!

You can see why large undercover shopping centres with masses of free parking are popular!

I've converted back to the High St, shopping online for clothes is a total PITA compared to going to the shops. I'm in my nearest big town today, it's swarming with people, virtually no empty units, easy parking, Debenhams is bright, modern and busy (this one's not closing), I have found masses of choice in clothes at reasonable prices. Also polite helpful staff in every shop I've been in. It's way better than sending off for stuff, finding it doesn't fit, sending it back and waiting for the refunds.

I'd like to see shops like Debenhams and M&S (and lots of others, to be fair) offering a much reduced range of stuff but doing things much better.

I don't want a choice of 187 polyester dresses: I'd be happier with a choice from 30 really sensibly edited cotton or silk dresses. Surely this would reduce store costs too, as they wouldn't have masses and masses of sale tat hanging around for months and reduced to pennies?

I find a lot of shops have too much choice, as a PP said. They need to reduce the content but up the quality. But a lot of people want cheap disposable fashion. Unless the climate changers and environmental campaigners change the mindset of mindless consumerism, the cheap offerings will prevail.

My nearest town centre was dead today - a rainy Saturday! Most people go to cities now as everything’s there.

Towns are just old fashioned, boring and depressing. As others have said, theyve been ruined by high parking costs, double yellow lines and pedestrianisation everywhere and the proliferation of what I call ‘shit shops.’ The shit shops are the phone shops, bookies, charities, cash converters, pound shops, card shops, primark/Select/New Look etc. etc.. Those shops attract a certain person and so the area becomes rough and sometimes menacing with nothing to offer those with money to spend on quality items.

Therefore, people with money go to the gentrified towns or the cities or shop online so the decline of shit towns continues because ... who wants their brand associated with shit town and shit shops?

It’s a shame. I think they’ll eventually become service centres for the largely student population, with internet cafes, barbers, nail bars, pop-ups, galleries and hairdressers with a smattering of food and drink sellers too.

I hate buying clothes on line but now anything I can't pick up in a supermarket is bought on line. Every time I've been shopping in person the shop is full of "for most of our range see our website" signs and a random selection of stuff, most of which I'm not mad on.

I'm a 12/14 So right in the standard size range- anyone above a 16 or below a 10 would have even less choice other than online.

Maternity range - see online

Nursing clothes available in very few stores.

Having finally started buying clothes on line I am going to cut out the go to shops and then flounce home because they've got nothing in stock stage of the process and start on line.

Sorry high street, your time has probably passed!

^Shops are inconvenient. Why on earth are they still opening from 9-5.30? Most people are at work. The 50’s housewife has pretty much gone.
Do European hours 10.30 to 7 so there’s a fighting chance of buying something after work.. Let people park for up to an hour for free. Encourage pop up shops rather than charity shops.^

^ This^

It’s just another example of how the high street hasn’t kept pace with how we live our lives.

Most people work during the day so having your shops open during the day just isnt going to work unless youre in a city. I cant tell you the amount of times Ive battled to leave work in time to catch the shops before they shut and failed to get there on time or only had five minutes, not to mention those shops who keep irregular hours (closed all day sunday & monday, closed from noon on Saturday, closed on Thursday etc.) Great if their target market is the unemployed, pensioners and shift workers.

I think the last really nice town i went shopping in was Bath.

Small towns are struggling generally, the high street is just part of that.

Cities are doing well - a large, diverse economy with higher paying jobs and broader demographic than small towns which tend to have mainly older residents.

Cities have the economies of scale to offer the experiences people want - the restaurants, bars, cafes, cultural events, pop up events.

Shopping will either be online for convenience or need to be an "event" ie a fun day out with food, theatre, experiences which only bigger places can manage to provide.

Small local high streets will need to focus on services ie hair dresser, salon, opticians, soft play kids cafes as well as restaurants and cafes. Some of them will need to shrink and convert excess commercial space into housing.

Buying clothes will not be done locally - that horse has bolted. Basic stuff you order online and then go into a big city for a day out when you want to buy something special.

This isn't unheard of. In the web of Victorian terraces where I live, you can see that there used to be a small shop on almost every corner - long since converted into housing, just with bigger windows than the normal terraces. They would have been the butcher, baker and candlestick maker of the time but most probably closed around the 1920s. Trade instead migrated to the local high street with fewer and bigger stores. That high street is doing ok now but primarily restaurants, cafes and then the odd specialist deli/wine shop/independent boutique. You can't buy socks anywhere but I can just add them to my supermarket online order.

Bank trading hours really annoy me. I dont even work FT but the bank is open from 10-4 which means i can only go if i have a day off or squeeze in a trip on a saturday morning. I bank online for personal and business but sometimes get a personal cheque as a birthday present for example and some customers at work pay by cash or cheque which needs to be banked.
I said on a previous post that i think the online business model for clothes shopping probably factors in a % of people that will order 2 of something or buy something that doesnt fit but not be bothered to return it.in a RL shop if the item isn't right the purchase wont be made in the first place.
I much prefer to go to a shop and see actual things and try things on but i don't actually shop v often.

My town centre was heaving today.
The m&s closes next saturday. Debs has got more floorspace than clothes.
Yet somehow, it's all still swarming with people.