🐌 Fantastic Skincare: Happy Snail Year, Bring Spoons!

[botemp]

Thread 1 Thread 2 Thread 3 Thread 4 Thread 5 Thread 6 Thread 7 Thread 8 Thread 9 Thread 10

I am very slowly working on consolidating the gathered information from previous threads into easier to read formats but it’s slow going. In order to make use of the below form and join in I would suggest reading thread 1 and at the very least the following info sheets (provided they apply to you):

Where to Start

Basics of an Actives Routine

Skin Types vs. Skin Conditions Info Sheet

Anti-Ageing Info sheet

Adult Acne Info Sheet

NEWish since previous threads:

Understanding Which Sunscreen(s) to Buy

Do I Really Need to Wear Sunscreen Every Single Day of the Year?

A Damaged Skin Barrier - Now What?

For those who are taking a peek and wondering what this all about, we mostly discuss a bit of advanced skincare here with a perspective of seeking out the right ingredients (rather than the latest new shiny product and all its empty promises) for our particular skin needs. Distinguishing the acid toners from the actives whilst avoiding the truly unimpressive and harmful ingredients with a hope to achieve a bit of anti-ageing, alleviate irritation and sensitivities with some idle chat in between. Newcomers are always welcome but please note the following:

Questions and asking for help on this thread is encouraged, however, we can’t give you a specific routine to follow and hope it works out for the best. There are no overnight miracles in skincare whether it be in the form of products or techniques. It’s about perseverance, understanding your skin, assessing its needs and responding to that in a diligent manner.

These threads were created to help those who want to learn for themselves. We’re a group of interested and invested skincare nuts happy to offer tea and sympathy and dole out advice. Everyone’s journey with skincare is different, what is universal and binds us is that through actually learning about the different active ingredients it helps us get to know our skin and help us adapt as it will change many times throughout our lives - with seasons, hormonal changes, ageing, genetics etc. It's in everyone's best interests to get to know their skin and to keep reviewing those changes with the confidence that comes from the gathered knowledge here. We really encourage you to spend the time reading through previous threads and linked info sheets that the many contributors have taken the trouble to share.

By no means are we experts, we're only a bunch of amateurs that can only respond by suggesting what we would do in your place, for any severe conditions please seek out professional help.

Ahem, and finally a little note on spending. I'm well aware these threads cause many to reach for their wallets and spend with wild abandon. There can sometimes be a bit of a frenzy surrounding the excitement around a newly discovered product or on the back of great improvements when someone reports back. This is all great, it doesn't however, mean everything that's a sudden miracle for one will be it for you. Usually, it's a light bulb moment for connecting the right skincare ingredient with an individual experiencing a specific problem. Take your time to mull over decisions and question whether it's right for you too. Skincare is highly individual, it's a slow game that should cost mostly in patience, input, education, and perseverance. Please don't make it cost you financially needlessly.

_

JANUARY 2018: Thread 11! we're getting old. A recap of The Snailies categories for those still meaning to get round to them:

🐌🐌 THE SNAILIES 2017 🐌🐌

The Well Hello There - newest and latest find that gets your motor running

The Flusher- money spent on this product would have been better put to use by flushing it down the toilet

The Jack & Rose- the product you’ll never let go of because there’s plenty of fucking space for the two of you on that piece of wood. Damn you, James Cameron, for breaking my poor little tween heart.

The LTB- it all seemed so promising, everything was going so great, then they turned out to be a narcissist gaslighting bastard

The Child Prodigy- that one product that’s annoyingly good and isn’t afraid to be smug about it

The Worker Bee- never the centre of attention but has been steadily chugging along like no other

The Troll- the one where you repeatedly asked, ‘Is this doing anything?’, but continued to use it anyway…

The Flabbergaster- that one product or technique that wasn’t really supposed to be used like that or delivered well beyond your non-existent expectations

The Sinner- oh, admit it because we’re all guilty of it, what did you do or use that wasn’t all that sensible like take an acid bath and had the disastrous results you really knew to expect

Morning all,
Been re-reading the thread and was interested in the Botox. It looks great Ollivander and I'm tempted but there's so many people here who have overdone it that I'm not quite sure.....

Checked out the Skinceuticals products online. 150 EUR for a small vitamin C bottle

Bo - is the Vichy vit C you recommended the LiftActiv Vitamin C brightening skin corrector with 15% vit C (and hyaluronic acid) 10ml ? I think the Vichy one sounds better than the TO one if the TO one is casing irritation to some people and the texture isn't great.

Vichy say: "We recommend using the product during 10 to 15 days, 3 to 4 times per year when skin needs a cure for brighter, more even and firmer skin. The product can also be used over 28 continuous days with no risk for cutaneous reactions. We do not recommend using any skin abrasive or skin peeling product containing other acids (fruit acids, Glycolic acid, AHA) at the same time since this can lead to skin irritation. "

I think I've found the Vichy HA serum: Mineral 89 skin booster (50ml) in a small transparent bottle.

We leave tomorrow for a week so will give my skin a rest there to get rid of these spots and then perhaps look at these new potential products when I'm back. The small irritation spots are clearing up. The huge one on my cheek that I picked is now a flat scab - lovely!! But I don't feel an under-the-skin one coming up on the bottom of my chin. Hoping it will deflate if I leave it alone

I think I will go for Vichy for vit C and HA ad then introduce the TO retinoid I have at some point. Still rather confused re all the retinols.

Userallusedup. - not related to beauty but how does an online book club work? Do you all get together online to discuss the books you've just read? I'm in a book club in RL.

And hello Baboosh. I think this isa great thread! I'm learning so much and everyone so interested and supportive.

sophie yes the Vichy lift activ one is the one being discussed and recommended on here. I haven’t tried it personally but it looks interesting. I’m using TO one. I don’t love it but it certainly doesn’t cause and irritation for me. It was a good inexpensive option to start with but I was kindly sent some medik 8 from a fellow poster so I’ll progress to that
next.

Welcome baboosh. Our resident expert Bo will be along in due course to advise on ingredients but I did raise my eyes at the price of that one! You could get a great Japanese one for under £10 . I’m not sure how well it blocks UVA rays which is an important consideration.

Thank you!
I totally agree it’s silly money and I do feel a bit of a mug for buying it but originally got it as part of an offer and having had a few spf disasters in the past got sucked in!

Ahem, it seems I need to restore some order here. Pupsie, what happened to the frugal year? Do I need to report you to my grandmother who treats frugalness like a competitive sport and would probably fall over from shock with the knowledge I spend more than 3 euros on a face cream?

JDSTER, I'm no expert, you should know considering you're reading back these threads, I've said it often enough I don't think I could endure reading myself back like that, or the giant walls of text I did back then going through everyone's routine. How I managed, I'll never know.

Yes, I spray thermal water liberally and then tissue off or use a flannel if it isn't soaked through. Joy, oh joy, I get to trolly out again. I also do a thermal spray precleansing as in the video if I'm not removing makeup or on a second/morning cleanse.

Olli, wrt botox, how's the shine on your forehead? I know it's a thing with both glycolic peels and botox that you can end up looking quite shiny/oily as a result.

Welcome, Babooshkayaya1. I'd be concerned with the Vit C that there is no preservation system whatsoever and lacks something like Ferulic and Vit E to boost the efficacy of the Vit C (a common criticism of TO formulations too, although you can get an extra product for it from them now but again, formulation not their strong suit if it isn't available as one). The percentage is on the lower side, and it's not a hydrous formulation so the effective percentage is difficult to gage as all those stability measures may end up delivering inactive L-AA upon application. So it may very well be 'stable' but that doesn't mean it's effective.

The SPF is tougher to say, if you're in the market for an elegant non-silicone sunscreen that pool is teeny tiny. I know there are a few Japanese options but they're not that cheap either. Physical sunscreens do have decent UVA protection by default so they're a good pick in that sense but certain chemical filters have a broader UVA waves protection so they're more 'complete' in that sense. It's tough, and it's also hard to let go of a good sunscreen when it's such a challenging product to you personally. Yes, the price tag is high but it is a 100ml and about twice the price of Neostrata and Skinceuticals which are usually the ones I'd rec in the elegant physical category but those are 50ml bottles, so price/ml not as crazy.

So that leaves the possibility of the BIODERMA Photoderm MINERAL Spray SPF 50+ (100g), INCI below, not everyone's favourite when they have a wider choice of options but much appreciated by those that don't. Spray into hands for the application rather than on the face.

INCI: Decyl Oleate, Dicaprylyl Carbonate, Zinc Oxide, Caprylic/Capric Triglyceride, Cocoglycerides, Titanium Dioxide, Silica Dimethyl Silylate, Polyhydroxystearic Acid, Tocopheryl Acetate, Hydrogenated Palm Glycerides Citrate, Stearic Acid, Alumina, Tocopherol (BI 694).

Yes, those are the two Vichy products, Sophie.

Thank you so much botemp. It’s a lovely thing that you and everyone else here gives so freely of your time to help others out.

It’s time to ditch my Vit C then, I’m down to the dregs of the bottle so I think I’ll get a trial size of the SkinPep one you mentioned and see how I get on. Wallet will be much happier too!

That’s reassuring to know about the SPF, thank you. Also hadn’t considered the price per ml so that helps with the justification process! Will take a look at the Bioderma spray too.

botemp - not too bad actually. I'm a weird combo of dry/flaky/oily and the last photo was taken after wearing makeup all day, no setting spray and no touch ups so I think it's doing ok! I can't frown at all now but can still move eyebrows

That's a great video Botemp. That lady has such gorgeous skin! So do you do all that after your shower?

Seems I might also have to invest in some Vichy thermal water (alongside the vit C serum and the HA serum).

Are silicones in skin products also considered irritants and possible causes of spots? I try not to use silicone on my hair.

Frugal year still going strong Bo. Hence not following through with the Boots order. As my DH says , "buy once, buy smart". I know I like the DE, from the sample size I was using for 2 weeks. So rather than try something else, I'll stick with this. Not cheap for sure. But it'll last me 6 months.

He actually says "buy smart, buy once" lol.

Olli Can you raise one eyebrow? Like this 🤨 because I really like doing the Scarlett O'Hara unimpressed raised eyebrow and would be sad if I couldn't. Never thought about that possibility before. It's looking good btw.

bo I must have missed that video the first time around! Those cheekbones!

Nope. But I'm not entirely sure I could before
< squints in mirror >

I see, you've changed tack somewhat, Pupsie. More sensible, by the sound of it. I think that was one of the main issues I had with TO, I bought into it as a cost-saving exercise and it wasn't. My skincare expenditures are usually just one amount every couple of months (either stocking up from France/Japan for the basics in one go or one spendy active) but TO had me making constant orders, either to ensure I had a backup when something ran out due to low stock or things just constantly ran out far quicker than I was used to and I always had to add on to them to get the shipping reasonable, then there was the discovery of the constant churn out of new products, etc. etc. Getting the Skinceuticals Vit C, really drove that home for me, it lasted me 5 months (15ml version, part of the time used every other day in the midst of winter as that sufficed fine) and it just reminded me how less stressful that all was. My Verso eye serum lasts at least 9-12 months, P50 I buy every 6 months or so and that's the tiny travel size. All pricey initially and I'm sure TO still beats them price/ml but I'm just a lot more content with all that. Now that I'm pretty much steady size wise I've reverted back to that philosophy for clothing too, much, much happier with that too. But expect much complaining from me when unseasonably warm weather strikes

mint, sorry it looks like I ignored your question earlier, didn't mean to. Two possible explanations, do you take your base all the way into the hairline? That is much tougher to clean out properly as we underestimate how far it travels and that could explain the residue base makeup, and could possibly explain the breakouts you have in that area too. Other explanation, it can just be a bit of oxidation happening, it doesn't have to be base remnants, is it only on the damp bit where the acid is or also on the (drier) bits of the cotton pad?

I always get distracted and stop hearing what people are saying when someone has had botox and can't express fully anymore, rude of me but I can't help but notice the lack of expected movement and be puzzled by the sight of it. Annoyingly it's often on people who are very expressive in their face to begin with, hence why they get botox.

Enid, and anyone else for that matter, for your viewing pleasure:

She's a Joelle Ciocco disciple btw, have always been intrigued by the facials there. Apparently bit of a torture session, they do the 'Buccal Massage' which involves the beauty therapist sticking their gloved hand in your mouth and having a good massage

I do like a good eyebrow raise...suppose if I just had the middle brow bit done it shouldn't effect that. I'll remember to ask if I go.

Has the Paula's Choice vit C serum been discussed? m.lookfantastic.com/paula-s-choice-resist-anti-ageing-c15-super-booster/11538840.html It looks like a good option for me as there's no HA in it. I'm assuming castor oil is ok for acne prone skin as it's from Paula's Choice.

Thank you for the links bo. I'm mesmerised by her cheekbones.

Botemp - yeah I get exactly what you mean! I've had the minimum possible to soften the static lines too, and I'm definitely not frozen! She offered a top up after two weeks, if I have it then I will just add more in between my brows rather than forehead
The lines were just bothering me

Yes, the PC version is supposed to be good. A bit hot dog water in smell and it's also a fraction smaller at 20ml, so bear in mind if price comparing. Castor oil generally ok, some people struggle with it when hydrogenated but it's not generally an acne/oily prone skin no-no by default.

Botemp - is silicone an ingredient which can cause spots?

Thanks bo. I don't mind smelling of hotdogs.

I can't seem to find the ingredients list for the Medik8 c tetra. If choosing between that one and the Paula's, for me, which do you think is best in your opinion?

Oh found them, I think...

Ingredients: Simmondsia Chinensis Oil, Cyclopentasiloxane, Cyclohexasiloxane, Tetrahexyldecyl Ascorbate, Tocopherol (d-Alpha)

Very short list and I don't recognise any of it unfortunately so none the wiser.

Ah Paula's Choice doesn't get very good reviews so think I'll rule that one out. Not sure what to look at then as the Medik8 isn't L-AA ( I don't think?). Wish they would stop sticking HA in everything.

Enid - is it common to have a problem with hyaluronic acid or is that particular to you? Apologies if you mentioned this further up the thread.

You make a good case for buying the Skinceuticals stuff, Botemp!** I'm tempted but think I should start off with some cheaper products first to see how I get on.

The more I think about, the more I am sure these spots I get (small spots which definitely look like clogged pores or the under the surface ones) are caused by some kind of ingredient clogging up my pores.

I also think that generally perhaps I am using too much product. I need to concentrate on finding the right products for my skin so that I don’t find myself using more and more of each product to get the results I desire.

Sorry ignore my questions about silicone and HA - just found all my answers on one of Bo's info sheets.

Does anyone use Dermalogica these days?

Bo I don't think I've changed tack actually. I've said a year of frugality. That's not the same as a no spend year. Each purchase is carefully planned and thought out; no impulse buying.

My mistake then, Pupsie. Frugal = my grandmother in my mind, who is much more geared towards savings and paying as little as possible and less strategic buy once, buy smart.

I have a bad track record with Dermalogica, Sophie. Some products are fine, others really irritating and they use some irritants in their plant extracts so it doesn't have my preference, but it's also quite highly priced in the bland and inoffensive category.

Enid, INCI is as follows:

Jojoba seed oil (well tolerated by most), silicone (for texture, keeping it light and not oily), another silicone (same purpose), Vitamin C derivative, Vitamin E (to stop the Jojoba going rancid and general antioxidant purposes).

I used it when on holiday over the summer and did like it despite not being the biggest fan of derivatives. Considering they pretty much all have HA it's not a bad one to try.