So when is M and S actually going to improve?

[Orangeanddemons]

Because it hasn't yet. They have the odd Cos type thing in Autograph, but the rest is dire, just dire. And the older girls is also dire. Drab, dull, boring safe and polyester.

Is it really going to ever up it's game?

But I think M&S vouchers are ok as you can use them to buy wine. Their wine is good IMO.

Must agree also about the toilets. They all smell vile.

I don't even think much of their wine. Always seems to be a gap between the stuff that's too cheap and cheerful and stuff that's very pricy and - if I were going to pay those prices - I'd want to get from a proper wine seller . Very little in the £7.00 - £8.00 ish range we usually buy from.

Got £50 vouchers as a gift recently and hot footed it there yesterday eagerly. Bought wine,a ready meal and some bath stuff...still have the rest of the vouchers .
Wanted a shirt for work but even with vouchers resent paying 25 quid for a dull,stiff,scratchy one.
Got a lovely soft, well fitting one from Asda of all p!aces today for £12

Hello Marc Bolland?? Hello???

No? Thought not.

I buy 4-5 basic shirts for under my work uniform, each year. That's about it.
Their kids welly socks are good.
I use online shop for school uniform but it's only got stuff in stock June or July . Goodness help you if your child grows during the year.
Our local store has a massive bias to girls clothes cf boys.

Tshirts not shirts!

I went in yesterday. Haven't been there for ages. I'd seen a waterproof kagoul type parka online that looked really nice (like a Zara design). Anyhow I found the coat section but it wasn't there. I was about to go, when I walked past a mannequin near the door that had it on. So I went to ask an assistant. She sent me back to the coat section I'd been to. So I asked another assistant who went to look at the mannequin and then confessed she had no idea where it was. She had to ask someone else! In the end she located it and said it was really useful because now if anybody else asked for it, she'd know where they were! Good grief! The layout looks like it's been done by someone with a nasty hangover and who is beyond caring.

interestingly I was on a testing panel recently, for the newly designed 'shirts for bigger busts'. They sent me a unflattering and badly thought-out-for-bigger-busts shirt to try on, I gave them loads and loads and loads of feedback, sent pics, etc... and never heard another thing. Which more or less sums up the common customer relationship with M&S - they say they want help to change, we rush to give it, then... nada.

I try to support M&S as I do feel some loyalty towards them - mostly, I think, because of their BUAV approval. However, their complacency just irritates me - they'd only have to take a panel of 50 people off of the street to find out where they're going wrong...
I am a massive fan of their beauty ranges - but, almost every product that I've loved and that's had dozens of glowing reviews has been discontinued or out of stock for months on end. I've given up looking.
As far as clothes are concerned, I think that the supermarkets are their biggest rival now, as you can get much better quality for a fraction of the price. I've actually got a gorgeous little black sweater with a deep v front and back that I bought from M&S 15 years ago - I've washed it hundreds of times and it still looks good. The cardigans that I bought last year look baggy and faded?!
To win back my custom, they need to offer quality, well-cut classic pieces in pretty colours. I'd happily pay more for that.

They don't even get their tights right anymore.

Dappy I agree with you re their rights they're awful how and even if you comment on their review section nothing gets done so they've lost me as a regular tights buyer.

The smallish store in the town where I work is crap. I think you need to visit one of their flagship stores to root out the decent buys.
And I do think there is the odd decent thing to be had. At 5ft, I really like their petite fit skinny jeans/jeggings. I also have a nice petite fit cashmere sweater from there. Autograph is good for leather footwear and bags. Limited collection has the odd decent thing too.

If you want to find the very definition of soul destroying, its an M&S Outlet Store.

Conversely, is it bad that I really want to see the bunny tea dress?

cocobono the toilets do stink in the M&S branch where I shop.

20 years ago their stuff was good but now it is mediocre balong with the quality of most of the high street.

BHS has much better tights than M&S which is madness. Btw BHS opaques are very comfortable and roomy, as are Sainsburys supersoft opaques. Leagues better than M&S.

The toilets in M&S Bromley are dire too. Dirty, no loo paper, nappy bins overflowing and smelly. You have to be really desperate to use them :(

I hate having to wade through acres of beige shapeless jumpers and navy polyester clothes.

Used to buy knickers there but have stopped as quality now so rubbish. When you even get that wrong m and s you really have to start wondering why you bother!

I think the bigger question is how have they managed to sell such dodgy product for so long?

Only reasons I can think of are:

1. safe environment
2. easy returns policy
3. accessible.

Basically, they aren't scary.

Their clothing for babies is pretty good. The girls in my NCT group nearly ended up in matching outfits last autumn, we all liked the range so much! And I've a very cute pair of dungarees that I can't wait for dd to grow into. Crucially they don't rely on girls=pink, which is refreshing.

I like the Per Una jeans and I always ditch the belt. They come up quite high at the waist and do a longer length, also seem good quality. I managed to pick up a couple of pairs in the sale for less than half price . I also get boots and shoes from there and the occasional knitwear. I don't like the tops much though but I did get some nice cords from there for £18. i don't usually pay full price and make use of the 20% off days.

I agree about the synthetic materials. 2 sloppy jumpers I bought last autumn actually brought me out in hives I was so itchy. I thought I'd caught fleas!! Also agree that they should do classics in classic colours. Superb black trousers, fab white shirts, cashmere, cotton, silk etc I've lost count of the number of times I've gone in looking to buy and come out depressed and empty handed. Come on marks and spensive as my little girl used to accidentally call it.

Happywithlife60 - I bought a great pair of black trousers there in Autumn. They are 100% wool and cost £50 - a real gem of a find and I believe they still stock them. Clearly the website makes them look really rubbish though.
www.marksandspencer.com/Collection-Italian-Grazer-Modern-Trousers/dp/B00DWLWIFY?ie=UTF8&ref=sr_1_7&nodeId=42967030&sr=1-7&qid=1391331741&pf_rd_r=1K4Q04DFBNYF8MMQYAK4&pf_rd_m=A2BO0OYVBKIQJM&pf_rd_t=301&pf_rd_i=0&pf_rd_p=321381407&pf_rd_s=center-3#CustomerReviewsHeader

I just feel depressed when coming out of their stores.

The only one I ever use is the flagship one at Marble Arch. It's vast, but I get overwhelmed by the displays and all the different ' categories'- labels within labels.

Why can't they just have a section for trousers, jumpers, dresses, coats, instead of this silly idea of 'Indigo Autograph, per Una,...

none of the categories makes a strong individual statement, so it's meaningless and confusing.

If for instance I want a jumper I don't want to search the entire store, I want all the jumpers together. I don't want to have to stop and wonder if i'm an Autograph woman, or an Indigo woman!!!! FFS.

"I don't want to have to stop and wonder if i'm an Autograph woman, or an Indigo woman!!!!" Ha ha - I agree! I'm hoping I am more autograph than per una, though...