Tanzanite, rubelite etc ... what are they?

[nkf]

Am idly watching some shopping channel and these gemstones keep coming up. Are they rare? Are they crap? Have they always been around but people have just started buying them? Also, does anyone seriously buy jewellery from the TV?

And animula..... Amethyst was popular in victorian times due to fashion and also the relative expense compared to other stones.

The difference in price between an amethyst and , for example, a ruby, was so enormous (as it is today) that only the gentrified victorians could afford rubies, emeralds et al.
Those not so wealthy but affluent enough to afford jewellery would have chosen amethyst, garnet or seed pearl jewellery as it was more within their means.

Don't go, MrsC, we've more questions for you ... .

Okay. Same as nowadays I guess.But are there more gemstones around. For example, I've just had a look at a website and it includes:
kunzite
peridot
jasper
tourmaline (in various colours)

I've never heard of any of them.

Hi nkf,

All gemstones will hold their value. But remember that the value of the stone is not necessarily what you pay for it.

To explain : A diamond ring in a shop window may be on sale for £2000. But the cost to get an identical stone and setting may be as little as £800.

You're right that the tanzanite will be bringing the price of the bracelet down relative to a sapphire. There's no reason to use one rather than the other. It's down to preference, design and cost cutting.

Sapphire's are graded on their colour quality as well, so if you're looking at a piece of jewellery with a watery coloured sapphire consider 'is the price worth it?' You are better with a smaller but deeper coloured stone.
(Unless it's white sapphire, but that's a whole other story!)

Peridot is the birthstone for August and was very popular in victorian jewellery. Still has quite a good market.
Jasper is quite common in jewellery but I don't see it worn often.
It's more down to taste, the majority of people are happy with a basic wedding band, diamond pendant etc. There are not as many people who will invest in a jasper ring or tourmaline etc. over and above a diamond/sapphire/emerald (popular stones)

kunzite, I can honestly say I've never actually come across it. But yet again, fashion prevails. If it's not popular or particularly unusual then it won't be as prevalent on the market.

Am loving this. More please.
For example, you can buy cheap diamond stuff in say Elizabeth Duke but would you be better off buying something with tanzanite. I know that's not like for like because they are different colours.

But essentially, are we talking stones, mined in the same way and cut and graded and set in the same way - but one type is rarer and therefore more expensive? Or is there a sort of brand name equivalent with stones? People think emeralds are better than jade and therefore it's more expensive.

You know in the same way prosecco is often nicer than chamnpagne but costs less because everyone thinks champagne is the business.

(fully expect to get drummed out of MN for poncery)

Sorry, that was a cross post.

Lol I love the prosecco/champagne.

If we stick with that allegory....

Presecco and champagne are entirely different things but both part of the alchoholic fizzy bubbly fun family.

Tanzanite and diamond are entirely different things but both part of the shiny lovely gem family.

Some gems will be more expensive due to rarity. Diamonds vs Amethysts for example. BUT to make things difficult, you could buy a crap diamond for £20 or a nice amethyst for £50.

Jewellery in Elizabeth Duke etc can be nice, you can't go far wrong with a silver necklace at £30 or whatnot but I find that their diamonds, wedding rings etc are overpriced as the diamond is not as good a quality as the price would suggest. (Same applies for most chain jewellers imho.)

So to answer at least one of your questions; You'd be better off buying a good piece of tanzanite jewellery rather than a cheap set of diamond jewellery.

Although just to set the cat amongst the pigeons, there are bargains out there.

I was at a vintage fair last week and picked up an Edwardian diamond brooch, looking a little bit worse for wear, for £80. Took home and cleaned up, diamond is v. good quality. Would easily sell 3 times the price I paid. (Although I won't because I fell a wee bit in love with it.)

So sometimes cheap is good and sometimes cheap is just cheap.

You obviously know what you are looking for. I find vintage anything hard to understand. The main high street jewellery shops look as if everything has come from the same source. Seemingly identicial rings, bracelets etc.

There is a shop near where I work which is independent and sells some vintage stuff. Old Rolexes, things like that. I often look in the window and drool a bit. But I don't know what to buy or even what would suit me.

I don't have much money but I would like to have a few nice pieces and leave them to my daughter.

Vintage now is not what vintage was 10 years ago. Now seemingly tat from the 1990's qualifies as 'vintage'. sighs

My guide to buying jewellery would be

1. Find something you like. Be it a style, a stone or an era.
2. Give yourself a rough budget.
3. Window shop like crazy.
4. If all else fails - Message mrscumberbatch and tell her what you're looking for and she will send out her vintage drones.....

Value is controlled by supply and demand. For example, the Victorians demanded peridot, amethyst and marcasite, yet supply was lower. So back then the price was high. Now that peridot, amethyst and marcasite are relatively abundant, and they are far less fashionable, they are much cheaper. (That said, lots of high end designers are re-discovering gems like these). Tanzanite was only discovered in the sixties by Fredrik Kunz - he also discovered Kunzite and Morganite - and Tiffanys launched it the following year. It is a single source gem (ie - it has only ever been found in Tanzania and they don't think that it will be found anywhere else) and is far rarer than diamonds. We bought my engagement ring from gems.tv because I really wanted a Tanzanite and could never afford De Beers or Tiffany. My ring cost £600 and was valued in Birmingham for £3500 (insurance replacement value)!! My wedding band cost £100 and has 1/4ct of brilliant cut diamonds. I have also purchased lots of earrings from them - you can get a pair of ruby studs in a gold setting for £25.

Anyway, in answer to nkf, yes - generally the stones are more expensive because they are rarer. Diamonds are the most common expensive gem and the most desired as they display a large amount of fire (the rainbow colours they can split light into) and even because of their durability (they are the hardest gemstone). Also, diamonds have been most heavily marketed (De Beers are really to blame for that one).

Either way they are all beautiful and lovely to own.

Mrs Martin. Thank you for telling me all that. I was watching it this pm and there was an opal ring that I was so tempted by.

Most of their gold is 9k though. | guess that's why the price is lower. Not just because of their "we buy in bulk" message.

Are their things pretty much as described?

Also rubellite is a variety of tourmaline - basically it is 'ruby-like' tourmaline. Indicolite is a blue variety of tourmaline but tourmaline basically comes in every colour imaginable - the most desirable is Pairaba tourmaline (think the colour of a swimming pool).

Morganite is a powder peachy-pink - the more colour saturation the better in terms of value.

Kunzite comes in a couple of colours (there are yellow and clear varieties) but is most often a pale true-pink. Again, the stronger the colour the better. It is also phosphorescent so when it has been in light and then goes into darkness it appears to glow.

Kyanite is found mostly in high mountains - nepal and the himalayas seem to be the richest source. It is a deep blue and looks like the best sapphire.

Sapphires are not all created equal - the most highly prized come from sri lanka (and are still referred to as cylon sapphires). However, Sapphires also come in lots of other colours - yellow, pink, green etc - and are referred to as 'fancy'. You can get sapphires from argos for £50 but they are almost black and therefore pretty crap!!

Colour change stones - you can get stones that seem to change colour according to the light they are viewed in. There are sapphires, garnets and other gems, such as alexandrite, that appear blue/green in one light and red/purple in another.

Zircon is not the same as cubic zirconia!! Zircon is a real gem that comes out of the ground and is beautiful - cheaper than diamonds and more fire than diamonds too. Cubic zirconia comes from a lab and is fake and horrible.

Amethyst and citrine come from the same family and there is a gem called ametrine where one half is amethyst and the other is citrine (one part of the earth was cold and the other was hot). This happens with quartz too and is regarded as a true phenomenon.

They are finding new gems all the time - a new gem was launched last year called astraeolite and it is clear (quartz I think) with specks of fools gold that look like stars - really pretty.

Do you know if there are jewellers/shops that specialise in stones like this? I live in London?

ooh this has been fascinating. MrsM and MrsC - do you mind if I ask you a quick question, slight divert from original post but reading all this has made me wonder...

at christmas BIL bough my dsis a bracelet that was ruby and diamond. sounds fancy but when we saw it, it was very thin dainty and had teeny chips of diamond and ruby in (maybe 3 or 4 of each). Really nothing particularly special to look at but he was pleased because it was 'little but good'. Plus it was antique and 14 carat gold rather than 18. BIL had spoken to my mum about it beforehand, and she had tried to persuade him to get the shop to sell it to him on sale or return (or at least exchange) in case it didn't fit my sis (she is tall and has big wrists so has previously had a problem with bracelets and watches not fitting). Bracelet barely does up on her arm - it is stretched to breaking point. She showed it to me and was surprised pleased by the thought that he had gone and got her jewellery as it matched her engagement ring but it didn't really fit so was feeling a bit unsure about it.

I've subsequently discovered that he was talked into buying it on the condition that if it didn't fit the shop had an old ring also in14 carat gold that they would use the gold from to make an extra link for the bracelet to make it longer - for a charge obviously. I've also discovered that he paid more like £750 for it rather than the £100-£150 she thinks it is worth. It's basically going to sit in a drawer and never get worn as it will stretch and snap and it catches on things (even in the few minutes she was showing it to me) so you could never wear it with nice clothes as it will damage them. She would be sick to the back teeth if she knew how much he had spent on it; it really doesn't look like it is worth that much. And they don't have that much spare money, plenty of scrimping as she hasn't been working recently due to ill health, so it would seem like a double kick in the teeth iyswim.

Do you reckon that BIL has been done on the price - he has gone to the local jewellers that he has bought their wedding rings from and where he tends to just go to without checking against other places. I reckon they see him coming and have used the chance to offload a piece they have had difficulty shifting (they said as much) at a high price. If it does sound OTT is there an easy way to get valuations done and then complain to the jewellers if they have overpriced it?

sorry OP, just realised that this has got a bit long, hope you don't mind, never realised quite how much this could emotionally affect somebody - and the wretched bracelet isn't even mine! Thanks if you do get this far and have an answer!

If you go into any independent jeweller they will have stone cutting contacts who can get a hold of everything. Just name your price and they will try to work within your limits.

nfk - Everything I have had has been as described and the one time I had a problem (a morganite came loose in its setting - to be honest it was my fault for being too rough with it) they refunded the earrings no problem. They re really helpful, the courier is great (my only bugbear with qvc) and they also don't use deceptive lighting techniques - I looked at rocks and co a min ago and the lighting in their studios is like trickery!!! Also - if you buy something from gems.tv they will send you a book for free that is like a dossier on every gemstone from A to K (the second book is due later in the year) which is just a great read (a good 2inches thick).

To be honest - I prefer 9ct gold as it is much more durable. My engagement ring is 18ct and my wedding band is 9 but because the shank and gallery of my engagement ring is diamond encrusted you can't tell. I think it is madness that people fork out for 18ct white gold - my best friend's ring is 18ct white and she has to get it re-dipped at least once a year (her ring was £9grand btw). If I was going to get a ring dipped I would rather save my cash and buy silver dipped in platinum!!!

anyway - for gems.tv keep the stickers on the rings and the earrings in the little clear jiffy bags and send them back if you don't like them. Best bit for me was they sold my ring at a later date for £500 so I emailed them and they put £100 in to my account to spend - I got matching earrings for free! :o

Hi zipzap,

That sounds like a nightmare. Without seeing it I couldn't tell you whether he'd been ripped off or not. Easiest thing to do would be to take it into a couple of other jewellers (not chain jewellers as they don't tend to have anyone able to value jewellery at all.) and ask them for a rough price on what they would have sold it for.

Remember that the gold price has gone up drastically in the last few years and so what we were able to buy for £200 in 2005 would easily cost more than double nowadays.

Find out what it's worth and take it from there. If he's been diddled then take it back and demand a return. If it is worth the money then I would consider letting them extend the bracelet. It's not uncommon but yet again I haven't seen the bracelet to comment on whether it would be difficult or not.

A lot of antique jewellery is delicate and not for everyday wear. Just a problem that comes with the territory. If it's not suitable I would maybe suggest arranging an exchange with the shop who sold it for something a bit more robust.

My enagement ring is Tanzanite.

Just saying!

Oh, and have had it since 1989

zipzap sorry but unless they are super clear stones (ie free of inclusions) I expect that he has been done abit. We went through AnchorCert and were happy with the service so I can recommend them but it would need to be sent off (most good jewellery shops like goldsmiths etc work as agents for them so you can take it into your local store). That is PRECISELY the reason I didn't let Mr Martin choose my engagement ring himself - He would have been conned into buying some wishy washy 15point stone for a grand if he was left to his own devices (I know - I'm so romantic!!).

Get it valued but I don't know if you have any come back against the jeweler.

BiWi - you are so fashion-forward!

Can I be nosey and ask why you chose tanzanite? I'm wondering if it's a Jilly Cooper-ish thing with your dh saying it matched your violet eyes. for the record, looking at the links Belle put up earlier, I realised my mother had violet eyes when she was younger.

My engagement ring is an almost exactly like this, just mine is yellow gold ans the gallery sits slightly higher (more proud of the hand) so my wedding band just sits underneath. It is massive and ostentacious but until I got engaged I had never had anything precious (I had a pretty poor upbringing). I only ever wear stud earrings and I wear a cheap qvc diamonique one when we go camping/on holiday etc.

www.wilkinsthejeweller.co.uk/uploads/products/l_f7e31af6cf952f61c5393845b508554d32752ed9.png

Also shows the mark-up you get with designer jewellery!

animula!

I knew the kind of style of ring I wanted, and he one in the shop just happened to be Tanzanite (with small diamonds)