Please help me with how to talk to my grieving friend

[BrieRightBack]

So one of my closest friends lost her baby girl at around 41 weeks. There were no pre-indications. She was induced, labour was taking a while and she had an emergency c section. Baby was born awake and breathing but then had to be resuscitated and died shortly afterwards. So technically a neonatal death rather than sillbirth? It was very shocking and obviously heartbreaking.

This happened a few years ago. My friend is very keen that we keep talking about the baby and celebrating her motherhood. I am very happy to participate in this. However, there are two points in particular that my friend frequently revisits and I don’t know how to talk to her about them.

I have tried just listening actively, but then she looks to me to respond. I am clearly saying the wrong things because then she just repeats herself again and again. Is there anyone out there who could help me with what to say please? Or does she just need to say these things out loud? I’d like to help her stop ruminating on them if I can but I don’t know how?

The points are:

1. That her pregnancy was problem free. She sometimes refers to it as “perfect”. Not the baby, the pregnancy. Factually, all I think this means was that she was a “low risk” FTM. ie nothing went awry in her pregnancy. I do recall her being quite proud of this at the time. I admit it seems unfair that she had no prior warning that anything would go wrong, but if she had then would this have helped her process it?
2. The hospital did a postmortem and some sort of investigation, as you’d expect. I have never asked about these but I have picked up that likely (i) Baby had no growth restriction and AFAIK no congenital problems and (ii) Hospital did not find themselves negligent, (iii) there was also nothing wrong with her or the placenta. Therefore just terrible luck. However, my friend continually reiterates that there was additional info that she is keeping Top Secret. Perhaps there is, perhaps there isn’t. And either way, we all respect her privacy in this matter. But she keeps on telling me that it is secret despite me never asking. Am I supposed to ask?!

I try to talk about the happy memories, the little girl that didn’t grow up, have supported her in subsequent pregnancies etc but I don’t feel like I’m being a good enough friend if I can’t help her talk about 1 and 2 above in the way she wants.

Is there anyone out there that can provide any insights into how she might be feeling about these issues and how I can help her? I can’t help but feel that there’s something else I should be saying so that she feels acknowledged and seen.

However, my friend continually reiterates that there was additional info that she is keeping Top Secret. Perhaps there is, perhaps there isn’t. And either way, we all respect her privacy in this matter. But she keeps on telling me that it is secret despite me never asking. Am I supposed to ask?!

i completely respect that you want to keep this to yourself but i’m here for you if you ever want to talk through

my spidey senses tell me that you’re not 100% keen on this friend

How've you come to that conclusion? She's posting here for guidance about how to steer this difficult conversation?

I do recall her being quite proud of this at the time

and

the whole “Top Secret” thing

as i say, only spidey senses

Op it seems that your friend is stuck jn grieving her lost child?? Has she had any counselling?? Talked to anyone?? Maybe by talking about her little one its a way of keeping her memory alive??

I think I'm reading it differently to you coffee 😀

OP I think all you can do is listen, I imagine she might be stuck in some of the details and trauma of what happened to her and unable to process them and that's why she keeps repeating and wanting to talk it through.

I love her very dearly and I would hope that it’s mutual!

i suppose i fear that I’m not meeting her needs. Some of our (younger) mutual friends have been there for her these few years in different ways that I haven’t e.g taking her out on nights out, spa days etc. But our friendship has been more like quiet confidants to each other. Long chats over tea and cake. So I guess I feel that if I can’t do that right then I’m failing her.

I don't think you are failing her, it sounds like you give her exactly what she needs. There might be others around her that aren't giving her that time to go over things again and again.

It’s not uncommon for bereaved people to want to tell their story repeatedly. It’s part of the grieving process.

It sounds like you think you’re missing something, and if you respond accordingly she’ll be satisfied and stop going over the same thing on repeat. But I don’t think it works like that.

My friend lost her baby daughter. She often goes over the same information when she talks to me about it. It’s her story, and she needs to tell it. I think I’m a safe space for her to do so, so I just let her.

Being heard is enough. just give her the space to do so.

Yeah I guess you can just be more glib with language online than IRL. These are not ways I would talk about her out loud but a little hyperbole can help to convey a complex situation when you have to sum it up in a few paragraphs.

I'm going to say something a bit controversial here.

I've had two friends in the past who, when they had issues (of a pretty serious nature) they made me feel like I was intruding if I asked them any details about it whatsoever. To me, I was just making conversation.

Then they also made me feel inadequate for not knowing the details of their particular issues, and not being more sympathetic/practically supportive, despite being completely un-forthcoming with details.

THEN... If there ever was anything discussed in detail they'd say, 'But of course, you could never really understand, because you've not been through it!'.

I just felt inadequate and pushed away really when all I wanted was to be there for them.

It's very complex and I do feel for you OP.

That's a tragic story and I suspect you are in fact a good and supportive friend if she continues to confide in you.

I wouldn't necessarily expect that the "perfect" pregnancy is anything to do with risk. It's just that her pregnancy was effectively the entirety of her shared experience of life together with her daughter, and to her, the time they spent together was perfect. I wouldn't read into it more than any bereaved parent calling their child perfect.

As for "top secret", there might be a slight chance she reached some settlement agreement with the Trust that included a confidentiality clause. It might be possible to infer that by an apparent change in circumstances, but it would seem very tactless to ask her about any of that.

What a sad story. Has she had any more children?

Two of my children have died, one neonatally.

As grieving parents we actually don't have a whole lot to say, there aren't many memories, we don't have years of laughs and Christmases and birthdays to share.

We have pregnancy, and birth, and a short time after birth for some of us.

What we do have is a lifetime of wondering, and we still have a lifetime of being a parent to a child who is no longer here. We have questions that will never be answered, and people who want to avoid us at all costs.

I would ask her if she wants you to try and come up with something to say in answer, or if she just needs a listening ear and you to say supportive things.

I suspect she just wants to talk and have you listen and just nod and be comforting.

It's difficult to see a friend hurting and not be able to do or say anything to 'fix it, but this is a situation that can't be fixed, nothing will lessen her hurt.

Just keep doing what you're doing, and clarify with her how she needs you to respond.

Do you think that her being stuck on how everything was perfect and that there is no real explanation (it seems) is part of her processing how little control we have and how you can do everything right, and you still can't be sure nothing bad will happen? Having been there with loss, it really does shake up your world view when it's so random and you realise how randomly and easily things can change in a moment. If she's ruminating, she may still be processing or coming to terms with this. Has she had any counselling support to help her talk through it?

It's frightening when we learn how quickly loss can happen to any of us.

quite clearly they didn’t want to discuss this with you

Indeed, but there was an expectation on me nonetheless from the individuals (and their close family members) that I would be very supportive... as all the indicators were that we were otherwise very close friends (multiple things actively in common... children, events, in contact multiple times a week).

I was limited to saying often things like, 'That must be really difficult for you', and ' oh you must be exhausted from that' and offering a range of practical help, but it was never enough.

I think just listening to her is enough. What a sad situation. Has she had any counselling?

Almost exactly the same thing happened to my friend 16 years ago. The secret was just that the midwife was incompetent. The autopsy showed that he died unnecessarily.
she liked him to be talked about - so we did. She found the date of his death obviously difficult and I made sure remembered it,
it took 10 years for her to be okay around the anniversary of his death.

it is very difficult to know what to do or say. Just be there and talk about the baby who died.

It is clearly very important to her to acknowledge that the pregnancy was perfect so I would keep affirming that. The secret stuff, I guess it gives her some tiny comfort to mention that and to know you will listen and not pry.
You sound like a lovely friend. There is nothing you can say that will resolve her grief - just listening and respecting it as you are doing.

Try not to assume that youre getting it 'wrong' unless shes said that. I think it sounds like youre being a good friend to her.