father and stepmother applying for residence order

[ladydeedy]

hello all
my first post on here and I am the stepmother (not the mother) so not strictly speaking a mum! Thought this would be a good place though to get some views on the situation in which we find ourselves.
My husband has two children from his previous marriage. They are teenagers and the split between mum and dad happened when both boys were very young.
I've been their stepmother for the last 10 years and we live a short walk from their mother's house in order to make access etc easier (so they can see their friends on "our" weekends etc).
the mother has a history of depression and the situation at home has deteriorated drastically over the past two or three years. The younger one in particular finds the situation very difficult (her unpredictable behaviour, inappropriate or disproportionate punishment) and she has hit him on several occasions. At one point we contacted the NSPCC as we were so concerned. He spoke to someone at school after a huge row when she told him to "get out" and was put in touch with the SSU. She also asked for his key back, which he has done.
Since then (3 weeks ago) he has lived with us. It's not an isolated incident but the situation has been brewing for the past couple of years. He's happy staying with us and has said he doesnt want to go back to live with her.
She has phoned up hysterical saying she wants him to go back and that she "didnt mean" what she said. She has threatened on several occasions over the years to "send him to live at his dad's" as some kind of punishment (interesting!) and now of course her bluff has been called.
I explained that it is in his best interests, and it is his wish, to continue to live with us. She says we should have sent him back to "learn to live with her rules" rather than give him the "easy option" of living with us.
We have decided that we will formalise the arrangement and apply as soon as possible for a residence order. She's very upset at that prospect of course.
I've tried to explain it may be in her best interests as well, as she obviously finds it very difficult to live in the same house as him and maybe, this way, she can start to have a more positive relationship with him rather than ruling by fear and intimidation (I didnt use those last words). I actually have a reasonable relationship with her when it comes to communication but she and my husband find it impossible to communicate with eachother.
I'd just like your views... I think we should give her a heads up that we are applying for residency but wonder if she will contest it. I understand though that the wishes of the child take priority.
The older child seems to manage ok at home and is happy with the decision that the younger one has made.
Sigh....

I think teenagers are often well listened to when it comes to residency.

If the teenager wants to live with you then he should be listened to, be prepared to let him go back if he changes his mind.
Apply for a residence order if you have to, a family law solicitor will tell you if that's necessary or not, for teenagers it generally isn't as his mum won't be able to take him if he doesn't want to go and he can vote with his feet.

thanks everyone for your advice. I think we'll go ahead with residence order so that he has peace of mind (mother keeps phoning and berating him and telling him she can make him go back).
My other concern is that she has his passport and we are due to go on holiday in a couple of weeks, and I suspect she will be difficult about handing it over! So will have to look in to what we have to do to get a replacement one.... if we can....

You dont need Solicitor to issue an application for residence - given that the lad is saying he wants to stay with you - just issue the application yourselves.

Look on the Court website and complete form C1 follow the instructions and away you go.

As for the passport - not sure but write to her formaly requesting return of it within 7 days - contact passport office for their advice but Id do that today - dont leave it any longer

thanks. We found the form really straightforward and so we have completed it ourselves, made copies, and sent it off!

Thanks for the advice on passport. Will get cracking on that one next!

You could try asking his older brother to get hold of it IF his mum is difficult about it - but you should ask her first of course.

good point as he is coming too - maybe we should just get both of them for the timing being and return the older brother's one when we get home....

Hi - sorry to hijack but thread caught my attention on behalf of a friend & her dd.

Could someone advise if it's just a matter of filling in the form where a residency order is already in place with a 14 yr old?

Court currently doing a wishing & feelings report and child can't (won't) give specific reasons for wanting to change. Judge has just rejected said report given that CAFCASS didn't even visit mum for one thing and their decision for recommending child stays with dad is that dd didn't give any specific reasons for wanting to live with her mum. Guardian now been appointed for child. So they have to go through it again, waste more time, more tax payers money etc...

Seems to me child is old enough to decide for herself and shouldn't be forced to give overwhelming reasons for or against either parent. How can the leave her hanging on like this.

OP - you say you are not strickly speaking a mum, but you are definitely a parent. You have just as much right as anyone to post and ask questions.
Hope you manage to sort out the passport in time. You can get an emergency court order to get it handed over if she's not forthcoming with it.

another poster had this passport issue and there was NOTHING they could do to get it returned,as they also,had little time

a solicitors letter might force her,but you cant simply get a replacement,unless its due to run out soon?

TBH, if there is likely to be a problem with it, I'd get the younger DS to go back home for a night or two, acquire his passport himself and then go on holiday with you - and when he comes back, come back to yours.

nightmare.....but this is the power she now has and might use it! also,dont you need her permission to go out of the country...something to do withn residence??

Legally you can hold up to 4 passports. Just contact the passport office, as long as you know the number you can get another one.

DH has two passports so he can visit many countries without them getting shirty about where he went before. Some countries don't let you in if you have visited a country they don't like! This is why you can hold multiple identical passports.

With gillybean's situation I think that children are easily influenced by their parents, particularly the parent they are with at the time. I think a child under 13ish saying they want to stay somewhere or not want to see a parent should have to give reasons to show that these are the child's own wishes and not views she has been fed. Parental alienation syndrome (PAS) is sadly common with 1 parent influencing the child against the other.
! way to exclude PAS is to discuss with the child why they feelthis way. If a child is mature enough to make their own mind up about something they should be mature enough to explain the basis behind their decision/opinion.

goodness. It's complicated. Cannot send boy back to his mother's as she has hit him in the past and I know it would get very ugly. Will call Passport office today to see about getting a replacement (his dad can get copy of birth certificate etc). we have an email (from some time ago) from her agreeing to the holiday so I hope that will all be fine in respect of her agreement.
Crikey...

and then... we'll get into the maintenance variation and applying for child benefit.. One step at a time. She wont like that, and I think that's why she's now trying to get him to return.

Wow, I'm so glad my ex's partner is not so manipulative. Maybe you and your partner should try offering his ex help and support before trying to sneak about stealing passports, going to the NSPCC and using children to take revenge? TBH you should probably get some support for the mother for the sake of the older child anyway, and you should also actually arrange to meet with her in a neutral location to discuss residence and documentation rather than being so underhand!

miggsie....are you sure about that??

Think that's a bit harsh, but I agree it does sound as though the OP hasn't actually asked the mum for the passport yet and seems to be creating problems before they arise.
I'd actually get the boy to ring his mum and ask for his passport so he can go on holiday.
All dicussing residency may help, but only if everyone can be calm about it. I'd only have adults discussing it so kids don't have to watch parents arguing.

WobblyBibble, we have tried and tried to help her. She has been offered counselling for her depression but refused to take it. We have offered to go to mediation but she refused. When we have asked to take the children on holiday during the school holidays she has refused in the past, even though she knew they really wanted to go. Then she'll call and complain that she cant deal with having them all the time and that they need to spend more time with us! We already have them for more than 8 weeks of holiday time every year.
I am sorry if you feel we are being manipulative but we are trying to do the right thing by the children. The younger boy actually arranged to meet her at a neutral location to discuss the way forward (at his instigation) and she spent the entire half hour crying and telling him what an awful child he is to want to live elsewhere and then demanded back the key to her house. He gave it to her and she walked off. I hope that gives you an idea of the very sorry situation.

we will ask for the passport, we just want to be prepared for what to do if the answer is no. I've just spoken to the passport office who say it is not a matter that they would be able to get involved in. If the mother withholds the passport then we'd have to get the law or the police involved as it is apparently illegal to withhold someone's passport from them, even if they are a "child".

mjinhiding thanks for your points earlier. Just spoke to free legal helpline that I've just discovered I get through work (nice!) and they say ask, if no reply then write a letter asking for passport to be handed over within 7 days otherwise unfortunately will have to apply to the court to make an order for her to do so.

so there is no option for holding multiple passports,as other posters have led me to believe??

Certainly when I spoke to the Passport office they said they couldnt help me, when I asked about getting a replacement or emergency one. But I have heard of people having more than one passport - maybe that is because they have an adult passport rather than a child's one? I dont know...