Week day contact

[thegingercat]

My boyfriend has 4 children and has been divorced for nearly 4 years.

His ex wife is very difficult to deal with and their only form of communication now is by e-mail at her request (which she often ignores or insists she hasn't received).

Boyfriend has had contact with his kids from Friday school pick up to Sunday evening at 6pm every other weekend and one night in the week from school pick up to school drop off the following morning. He also has phone contact every evening. The children live about 3 miles away from him with their Mum. This contact has been like this for nearly 4 years.

His ex is now saying that she wants to stop the mid week contact and that this is all the childrens wishes (the youngest is aged 6). I only see a good relationship between him and his children and would be very surprised indeed if the children have all decided this for perfectly good reason. The ex refuses to specify what the reasons are and the children have told their Dad that they don't know why they are not seeing him during the week anymore!

Boyfriend and ex have agreed to a meeting with extended family to act as mediators but I don't hold out much hope as she normally just sits deathly quietly and refuses to communicate - even her own family don't understand her.

So, on a practical level I have a question, if he ends up having to go down the legal route and family meetings and mediation don't work, what are the timescales for this to go to court? What sort of money is it likely to cost him? He won't get legal aid. My fear is that she will also stop the weekend contact and the daily phone contact in the meantime and of course, demand the extra money for the extra overnights she will be having.

On an emotional level, I feel that all this constant upset (there is always something with the ex) is not doing our relationship any good at all. The fact that his ex has starting picking fault with me and making assumptions about my 11 yr old son as well, is making me unhappy and upset that I have to keep out of it and not be able to defend myself or my son against this woman's lies and innuendo's. I feel that most of our conversations revolve around the ex when she kicks off like this and we are putting so much energy into trying to understand her that we are not building our own lives together. Everything else seems to take a back seat. I suppose I just feel like her and her children get all the attention not only from him, but often it pre-occupies my thoughts very much too and who is giving me and my son thought?

I don't believe contact will be reduced by a court without a really good reason. I would go and see a few lawyers now. (reasons don't include, the kids need a break)

How was the current arrangements agreed? verbally or via courts/lawyers.

Can't say on timescales and costs, each case is different. Some last a few court hearings and a few months. Some can drag on and on

My boyfriend is contacting solicitors over the last 2 days but his solicitor has flu and he can't get another appointment for weeks.

The current arrangement was agreed between themselves. they have never been to court for anything.

There is a legal guru Yerblurt around this board, who through experience knows a great deal. I honestly would hope there is a way through this quick and legal. It seems for something that has worked for 4 years, it should not allowed to be arbitrarily reduced.

A solicitor would probably suggest mediation first, but legally not with family members. Your partner can represent himself though to keep costs down. Google Families Need Fathers. You can join for a fee and they have lots of info. Good luck. Hopefully if the kids aren't expressing these feelings of cutting contact themselves at all she will be advised that contact should stay just as it is and has been for years.

He's tried phoning families need fathers twice but no-one gets back to him. His first step is to get his (or any!) solicitor to write her a letter as well as have a sit down meeting with her.

The main reason she is giving is that the children don't always complete all their homework when they are with him. I have been there and helped out with homework and we are reliant on the word of the children if they have completed it all as the mother doesn't tell us what needs doing. The eldest are old enough to work out what they should be doing but to expect a 6 year old to remember what her homework is that was given to her 5 days ago, is a bit mean if you ask me! Of course, the homework could be done at any time but is saved until it's Dad's time at the last minute.

I think you can join Families Need Fathers online.

Good luck x

i would definitely apply for a contact order or possibly a shared residence order. Times scales will depend entirely on where in the country you are filing. I know that in the principal registry in London you will probably get a first directions hearing date about 2 months after you lodge your application (C100 form). In that hearing the judge would probably order a cafcass report for recommendations.

If you are filing elsewhere timescales will vary depending on their caseload.

That said you could probably try to get the judge to issue a summery or interim order maintaining the status quo of midweek contact while you wait for CAFCASS (they have an enormous backlog of private law cases and can cause significant delay) .

You could also front up to the court and ask for an emergency interim order. You could go infront of the judge of the day, show them evidence of the current regime and the mothers attempt to disrupt it (and her justifications for it) and ask the judge to issue you with a interim contact order. THe matter can then be held over to a full hearing later. THat way she cannot withhold the kids while you wait for a hearing date.

Honestly, the regime you have now is fairly bog standard and i find it very difficult to beleive that a cafcass officer or a court would agree to a reduction on such a flimsy excuse.

As for costs, if you represent yourself (and it is not hard) all it would cost you is a couple of days off work and a £110 filing fee.

Which branch of FNF have you been in contact with. I know several senior members of inner london chapters and would be happy to put you in touch with the right people if that would be of help.

Hi Sugarplumfairy,

Boyfriend has spoken with his solicitor and she doesn't seem that positive.

As the mother is telling him that the children don't want to see him and it is their free choice, the solicitor seems to think there isn't a lot that can be done.

She has suggested that if the family meeting does not work, then someone neutral should interview the children to find out what they do want. The trouble is, I'm not quite sure who they could use as his ex has turned against every one of their joint friends and refuses to speak to anyone who talks to my boyfriend.

I'm sad to say that I think the mother will persuade them to stay with her. They already believe lots of her ridiculous ideas and are very keen to please her and get rewarded for (in my opinion) quite negative behaviour.

However, the youngest is only 6 and he probably could push for contact to continue with her, but when you are one of four, I think she might want to be with her siblings and might find it quite a lonely experience being on her own.

We're going to see what happens at the family meeting next week and go from there. I think she is aiming to reduce contact gradually. She knows that if she were to stop contact altogether she would get dragged to court in an instant, but by gradually reducing contact, firstly it was the phone contact (he used to phone twice daily!) now the midweek contact and then the weekend contact. She knows that he probably feels "it's not worth kicking up a fuss" for some things but in the end she will reduce the whole lot, I'm sure.

Please go and see another solicitor. I went to a few, all have their own spin on things. One told me I had no chance of having DS, he seemed quite apathetic and more interested in his fee.

Your arrangement is pretty standard, and courts do not reduce time, (unless a really really compelling reason), thesugarplumfairy has it right, get an interim contact order for current arrangements. Take it from there, she would have to prove that it should be reduced.

I would stick with trying to sort out the weekend and weekday contact to remain in place, but expecting contact by phone twice a day or even once a day seems excessive. I would be really unhappy if my ex was expecting to call twice a day, if nothing else trying to negotiate to have four children of various ages around for him to be able to speak to would be a nightmare, what with clubs, school activities and time at friends houses etc. I wouldn't dream of keep ringing mine when they are in his company and would expect the same when they are with me. Does she ring all the time when your boyfriend has them? Maybe the ex is being funny partly because of the amount of phone contact. Just a suggestion.

Re: the phone contact.

To be honest, when she reduced the phone contact I could see her point totally. Don't get me wrong, he doesn't expect to speak to all 4 when he does phone and is quite accepting if they are at clubs or friends etc.

But phoning when you are trying to get 4 kids ready for school must have been a nightmare for her, to be honest.

The evening phone call is only normally 5 mins and although I don't think she likes it and insists that he doesn't phone when they are on holiday etc. Her argument is that she doesn't phone constantly when they are with him but then she is always on msn, facebook and texting so still has communication with them. just not in such an open way.

I will mention to him that another solicitor might be more positive if the outcome next week is not as he hopes.

Hope you get some positive news when you visit the Solicitors.

I have great sympathy with you that you often feel the ex takes over so much time and energy dealing with her. Its really hard to get used to their always being a 3rd party having a say in how you run your life. I know it comes with the step family scenario but at times it is really frustrating. I bet many many stepmums would sympathise with you too. Its the frustration at not being in control of your own and your dp's life that I imagine gets annoying as it does with me. Keep smiling and as for gripes about you or your child, its not easy but try not to let her get to you as thats prob what she is hoping for.

Thanks Buttons .

I think it's knowing that as the parent with care who is manipulating, bitter and twisted that ultimately she has so much control.

I feel a lot better than when I first posted this and in reality know that if she is so bitter and intent on causing so much upset and aggravation for him and anyone he cares about, then she must have nothing positive in her life (despite her pretending otherwise).

She is encouraging her children to snitch and sneak on their own father. You have to be a bit twisted to want that don't you?

try www.wikivorce.com....child residency and contact forums are very helpful!

thegingercat - My dh and I are the parents with care!!! (3 mine 2 his) but his Ex still has alot of "hold" what with not making plans until the last minute and being very unreliable!! Annoying isn't it!!

Well, my boyfriend and his ex had their meeting with their parents there.

Sounds like she is completely mad, according to my ex and his parents. Her own mother thought she was making mountains out of molehills and told her several times to stop over reacting - I think she has a very empty life to create so much drama.

The kids had a meeting with the grandparents the next day and they have said they don't want to see Dad any less than they do now. Days have changed but he basically has as much contact. I don't think she will like it but after her spouting on and on about how the kids dont' want to see him during the week and how she is only carrying out the childrens wishes, it will be interesting to see what happens now.

She said so many things that contradicted each other like how he doesn't manage their son's asthma properly so he can't stay during the week, but it's OK for him to stay at the weekend because she wants a "free" weekend without the kids.

The other thing that has started to happen is that the kids are making up lies about my son. I'm sure they get lots of attention at home from Mum for doing so and she then sends a snotty e-mail stating that what her children say are fact.

I always wonder when I hear 'the children don't want to see ex and I'm not going to force them, I'm just doing their wishes'

If the children said 'we want to go and live with mum/dad' would these wishes be upheld?
I think not.

Good luck it usually gets better given time.

So far no one has addressed the last part of your post about your own emotional needs and those of your son. As I understand it, you do not have a child with this man. You may want to consider whether you want this woman in your life, and the life of your son, for the rest of your life. Because if you stay with this man, she will be.

Does your DH pay child maintenance through the CSA by any chance ? If so and if you're wondering why this midweek overnight has suddenly been stopped, you could have the answer right there (apart from her being spiteful for the sake of it of course) as 52 extra nights a year would increase her money !

Also think your DH has got dud advice from that solicitor. She may have a point if they were all teenagers but a 6 year old isn't expected to know their own mind and CAFCASS would interview both parents as well as the kids to try and get to the bottom of what the kids really want. As others have suggested, he can self rep into court ... think this is about £175 so hugely cheaper than a solicitor and there is loads of info on the net about how to do this. It's all very well trying to appeal to her better nature and getting family to intervene but it doesn't sound as if she's got a conscience at all. Maybe the threat of prosecution if she broke an order might just do it.

You have my complete sympathy for all this having been through something very similar (which was money and spite driven). Unfortunately my DP prevaricated about court quite literally for many years which meant that when it finally got there, the kids had been subjected to 5 years of PAS - by the time an order was made it was 2 years further on from that, and the order is all but useless, completely wishy washy, with plenty of room for "interpretation" and really leaves us no better off than before. Think the problem was that a) my DP had let it (all the controlling/unfair/non communicative crap) go on for so long that the court didn't take him seriously and b) the kids were deemed old enough to know their own minds by then. Whilst 1 child has come back into the fold as it were we still have huge problems with the other and, as you say, that issue has a habit of draining your emotional energy - so much so that other areas of our life and relationship invariably suffer. There is obviously much much more to the story but I admit I resent the fact that (IMO) such a disproportionate amount of time and effort has "had" to be devoted to dealing with a bitter spiteful dishonest ex and a child who, though I don't want to post any identifiers, is definitely old enough now to have started taking responsibility for his own (often very hurtful) actions.

I have also had to try and minimise the effect of this on my children (1 with DP, 1 by ex). They too have been dragged into this mess through no fault of their own and it makes me very angry. I have only ever wanted all the children to be treated the same, have never asked for preferential treatment for mine, yet his older 2 kids are (as a result of all the crap and him being terrified of contact being cut if they're upset) treated with kid gloves and have often been allowed to get away with murder. Believe me things would be very different if me and DP didn't have a child together and might yet be still - it's a constant dilema I have.

In your situation, the positive thing is that - as yet - the children themselves haven't said anything negative about seeing their dad. This is even more reason why he should get to court as soon as possible before - potentially - they're coached otherwise. My skids used to come here no problem then all the "kids don't want to come" rubbish started sporadically (seemingly when ex was pissed off about something - lack of contact was used as a punishment). They too would plead ignorance of "not wanting" to come when you next spoke to them, yet gradually, as time wore on, they began to come out with all manner of trivial and/or nonesensical excuses - many of which used vocabulary and grammar kids of that age would never spontaneously think of - and it became apparent that they were repeating someone's party line. Eventually I think they were coached so often that lies became "truth", and/or they were scared of going against their mother and we ended up with 2 quite damaged kids. It has been unimaginably hard because although you start off by sympathising it's very very hard to remain so after years of significant stress and upset, and when the kids get to an age where they can literally see the truth of the matter right in front of them.

Please get your DH into court asap in the hope this can be nipped in the bud. I'm sorry you're gping through this and as a final note, do consider what Tryingnottoswear said .... whether you are strong enough to weather this for years to come, and, whether you think your DP will be strong enough to protect you from the effects of his ex wife's spite. I always think that no matter how badly someone behaves, the effects can often be minimised or even completely removed, so long as that person is stood up to (eg. by going to court in your case) or ignored (eg. so that emotional blackmail isn't given in to).