What is 'reasonable' contact regarding holidays? (6 year old)

[lucasmama08]

What do people feel is 'reasonable' access regarding holidays and does anyone have experience of going to court to get it?

DSS is 6 years old. We see him almost every Saturday, plus an overnight visit every 6-8 weeks. This year we have also been allowed to have him for two 2-night visits which have been lovely as we've been able to do proper weekends away.

What we'd really like is to have him for at least 1 full week per year, preferably to take abroad with us but if not somewhere in the UK. BM's parents take him away for 1 week every summer (and have since he was 6 months old) so there is a sort-of precedent set. BM has given DH a very firm no to this suggestion and won't do mediation etc, so the only option might be to involve the solicitors (yet again!)

Problem is, I have watched it take years of discussion and compromise to get things to the stage we are at now with regular contact and some over night visits, so I'm really very worried that DH involving solicitors again might destroy current access arrangements.

DSS is very keen to join us on holiday, especially now he has a little brother (and another sibling on the way), so I think a court case would come down to 'reasonable access' - however that would be defined.

Does anyone have any experience of this? Would you risk rocking the boat?

I think I probably would go through solicitors, although I know what you mean about not rocking the boat.

He hardly has any time with you does he? And I think one full week is not nearly enough holiday time. The court order for dsd was for a week at Christmas and Easter, two weeks in the summer and half of every half term, in addition to every 3rd weekend. As soon as her views were listened to by her mum that changed to alternate weekends and an extra week in the summer.

The thing is he is missing out on family trips and family holidays and that really isn't fair on him. He barely has time to build a proper relationship with you all does he?

Half the holidays would the "norm" IMHO

What is normally worked towards is every other weekend (fri-sun or mon morning), one night in the week and half of school holidays I thought.

It doesn't sound like he gets to spend a lot of time with you. If his BM has no real reasons for restricting access, then it seems bizarre that you only have such little contact time! It's so difficult building a strong relationship with just one day a week contact.

If she's not open to mediation at all, it looks like solicitor is the only other route to take. Good luck x

Wow, thanks everyone. Hadn't realised the current situation was quite so bad until I read your replies

It does sometimes feel like we're dogs at BM's table begging for whatever scraps of time with DSS we can get. Perhaps no coincidence that we've had more overnight visits since she's has a boyfriend this year, but maybe I'm being too cynical?

Anyway, rant over!

Surfermum - Thanks for sharing your contact arrangements. "The thing is he is missing out on family trips and family holidays and that really isn't fair on him". So true. We have had two one-week holidays this year and DSS has got quite upset before and after each one. When asked he says he'd love to come but "Mummy won't let me". Now DS is on the scene it's only making it harder for him. We went away with the inlaws for the second week and MIL and I were both in or near tears at some point each day (and DH too I suspect, but he hides it better). Just didn't feel right being on a 'family' holiday without him.

Yerblurt and ChocHobNob - this sort of access would change our lives completely, I had no idea that 50-50 was so common.

So, looks like solicitors and court are the way to go but well worth it in the end.

As others have said, I believe the starting point for courts would be every other weekend, one night in the week and half the holidays (including alternative christmas day etc.).

I know what you mean about rocking the boat - we get all of the above with dsd except for christmas day. Its the one thing BM will not really budge on and it seems silly to go to court for that when other access is reasonable (and the relationship is generally amicable).

In your case though, I think solicitors would be the way to go

Good luck

One thing to add ... whatever way you achieve an increase in holiday time, ensure you also get the passport. No point in getting half the holidays if the passport is withheld (which is what my ex did to me).

You can suggest that the passport should be held by a solicitor and handed over to the parent on request.

Thanks everyone.

I would be nice if it could all be resolved in mediation and I certainly think DH should encourage it as an alternative to court. However, even if she did agree to attend I do rather doubt it would change her mind. The worrying thing to me is that she genuinely seems to believe she is 100% in the right. She is an educated woman with a responsible job but cannot seem to understand that access is in DSS's best interests. DH, DS and I are referred to as 'Daddy's family' and last year she told my poor MIL that she believed DSS would be better off if none of 'us' (i.e. DH, MIL and all his side of the family) were in DSS's life. I get the strong impression she believes she is being generous with allowing the access she does. She has an older child whose father left soon after birth pretty much leaving her to raise him by herself and so it looks to me like that has become both her coping strategy and preferred parenting model.

We are nice, educated and stable people. No skeletons in the closet, no nasty habits and DSS loves spending time with us. After reading all your posts I think we would get a good access arrangement via the courts. I hate to put DSS through it, but I believe it will be in his best interests in the long term.

It's just so sad it has to be this way.

PS: It would certainly be interesting to be a fly on the wall if it was suggested that a solicitor holds DSS's passport

I meant to also add that I have passed all your comments onto DH. He came to the conclusion court was the best way some months ago but was happy to hear that such generous access is quite normal.

Half the holidays, but then we both work so one of us having kids all school holidays wouldn't work anyway. I think SAHMs can be more unreasonable about letting dads have kids over holidays than working mums.

Thanks 2rebecca, I imagine that is probably true (re: SAHMs)

However, in our case DSS's Mum works and he spent 3 days/week in childcare over the summer holidays because she wouldn't budge on the 1 day/week access

I do sympathise with how she must feel - it must seem very unfair that because we have 2 incomes DH can afford to take time off to spend with DSS over the summer whilst she is stuck at work, but you would hope that she would put these feelings to one side and try and do what is in her child's best interest.

lucasmama...
I can imagine a judge kicking her arse into touch.
Seriously any decent judge would not entertain her stance ie she would rather she pay for childcare than share the holidays!

Going through solicitors is the best option. What you have contact wise doesnt seem 'resonable'. My DP and I spent 9 months going through the courts after his lovely ex stopped contact. Now contact is 3 weekends out of 4 and additional time in holidays.. if either party dont comply then they will be punished wither by community service, time served etc

Although it is a long hard process it is definately worth it

I'm speaking as a mum and she may have genuine reasons for minimum contact. Can't go into too many details but it took my children a good while for them to feel settled enough to be away from home (exh never saw the affects the divorce had them and accused me of withholding contact, which was definitely not the case). I wanted them to feel the amount of time they spent with their dad was their choice because this helped them heal much quicker.

They now go to dads every other weekend, fri to sun - we are still not at holiday stage or staying more than 2 nights in one go yet. I am actually the one trying to get ex to increase this as it's delaying him having them for holidays. I feel, and also the thoughts of a solicitor, was that a jump from 1 or 2 nights straight to 7 was too much for a child to do - but each child is different and most can cope with that straight away. I know mine would go backwards if such a huge jump was forced on them, hence the reason for increasing slowly.

I would never suggest going through Courts unless absolutely necessary, but I had a bad experience - it turned something semi-amicable into a nasty battle!

Could you not ask for DSS to be allowed to have overnight access one night every or every other weekend, so you have him say from saturday morning until sunday evening? If he's happy with this then you could progress onto the normal contact of two nights from friday night to sunday evening - until you also can build up to a full weeks access?