Stopping emotions getting in the way of financial support for non resident children!

[zazas]

Does anyone else find the financial side of supporting non residential children a minefield? Between 'what is fair' and the emotional pressure that seems to dominate a decision it isn't straight forward. This is a constant cause of upset in our house and it would really help to perspective from others in a similar situation.

Our background is... 2 dc from my previous marriage (DD 11 and DS 8) and 2 from DH (DS 10 and DD 9) and together we have DD 2. My children are resident with us and only see their Dad for about 40 nights a year - he pays child maintenance for them but does not contribute to any other costs. My dsc are with us during the week / every 2nd weekend / 1/2 of all holidays and a good few other days as well - at least 40% of the time I guess. My DH pays maintenance above what is the guidelines for them.

We provide all the dsc clothing / shoes / coats etc at our house. On top of that DH also splits the costs of school shoes with his ex / any school trips and residential stays / takes full responsibility for any costs that occur while they are with us (birthday parties / school events etc) and pays for their judo / rugby fees and equipment.

However ex wants him to contribute more and this is where it is causing us grief! She now also wants him to pay for half of the school lunches and half of the children's new music and choir lessons.

We both believe that as she receives maintenance and plus all the govt. help (child benefit / tax credits etc) then she has to take responsibility to paying for the extras for the children out of this.

Our concern is that firstly we can't afford it! We run our own business and while we are maintaining it through this downturn we have absolutely no money spare at all. Secondly we both feel that she receives enough money from various sources to support the children and that we already support them fairly and to the best of our ability. Thirdly we are both resentful as she is works as an artist and uses the "I don't earn very much money" line in order to explain why she needs more financial support. She feels she can only earn a small amount as she can only work part time because of the children, even though my DH husband picks them up from school twice a week and effectively she has approx. 34 hours a week to work. She won't use after school care to extend her hours as she doesn't "wish" the children to do this! As a side she also chooses to take at least 10 weeks of holidays a year - including going away when we have the children!!!

Writing this down makes it seem to straight forward but unfortunately even though my DH feels that enough is enough he is so emotional about the children that she is able to use this to pretty much get him to agree to what she wants. This is where the conflict at home begins - I get resentful and DH feels trapped in this situation that he has allowed. He feels that any financial support that he refuses is an indication that he doesn't care for his children.

My feeling is that DH and I and my ex for that matter all work really, really hard to support our children while she doesn't and therefore we are effectively also supporting her. The new music lessons are all her idea and while we of course would like to give the children every opportunity we just can't and I think everyone has to accept that. (for the record my DC don't have these lessons as I can't afford them and that apart from these all the children have had access to similar sorts of after school activities.) As for school lunches - I have suggested that we contribute on the days where we would have had to provide lunch but she is not happy with this.

Ok it was ramble but if any one has any thoughts or you feel we are being unreasonable fire away! Thanks.

In terms of the original question, though - and I agree it's an emotional minefield - I think you have to be fair to all the children. If, after basics are paid for (and that includes maintenance for DSC's)you can afford to pay for all 5 children to have judo/school trips/rugby/music lessons etc, then great. If not, then it is blisteringly unfair that 2 get them and not the others.

If they were all living with you, would you dream of buying 2 of them something and not the other 3?

my ex has two ex wives and three dc

he pays csa mney through them

if me or other mum want dc to do classes

we pay

BUT he also has to take them

which he doesn't like much

but he doesn't pay anything towards any outside curriculm activities or lessons at all

just tel her that she has to contribute to all the dc asell

Food and clothing should be bought by resident parent who gets child support, child tax credit and CSA money. We split music lessons but have to agree on them. Sporting activities I enter the kids for when with me I pay for and I pay for special clothes they need for these activities. My husband pays for the (different) activities they do with him and gear for that. Ordinary clothes bought by resident parent, expensive uniform items split. School lunches resident parent as part of normal feeding the children.

Thanks for the new feedback, it helps us to get a better overview on this highly 'emotive' topic. My thoughts are also that DH's ex is 'fortunate' that she has residency of the children (as I am with mine) so while I/we enjoy all the good things that come with having the children 'living' with us, there us also the responsibility to provide for them (out of the money received from having the children) for the day to day basis - clothes / shoes / school lunches etc etc (as discussed) - I find it so difficult when DH's ex expects those off us as well - i.e. dss asked for his hair to be cut this weekend as he said that "Mummy said that it was daddy's responsibility."!

I agree that we need to look at the expenditure for all 5 (give or take) - we want to exist as one big 'family' and I am sure large families weigh up all costs for all kids when making decisions re activities.

I think the subject of financial responsibility needs to be tackled this week -

I'd say haircutting is a resident parent expense and if his ex means she thinks dad should take him for haircuts as a father son thing then I would still expect her to pay for the haircut, although boys barber cuts are cheap.

I also think of it as a residential parent thing (haircuts) only in terms of they have more time / opportunities to fit getting one in! DH is happy to take his ds to get a haircut and his dd for that matter when they need one (which is a great way to spend a saturday morning - not!) - although then of course he has received flack when her gets it cut too short! Honestly is you were going to be worried about it - you would choose to make sure you were the one taking them! No it is more like she likes to leave it so that DH can pay - like leaving letters from the school in their school bags for unpaid class trips, which of course DH pays as he hates to get the children involved by passing the letter back. (the old emotional thing again)

The emotion is what she is playing on and will continue to do until you dont play anymore.

If you set up 5 accounts at say the nationwide for all the dc - then have a so go into each account. If the dc want to go on a school trip etc - it comes out of their own account.

If there is not enough money in their own account then - thats it all the dc get the smae amount.

over time it will build up though and it stops this he got more than me and big expensive trips - cos they all have their own money if it builds up they can have a more expensive trip

whether you habd over the account bokks with only them to sign or you keep it so both the dc and an adult has to sign - I don't know?

But in the future when your dear step son turns up and says hair cut - fine we can get that money out of your account.

it may make dss think twice? Also with each school outing - perhpas dss may want mum to chip in?

it will also teach each child that they are equal and the value of money.

by doing this you are being fair, you take the money issue to some extent out of your own hands and put the responsability in that of the dsc

say £20 per week in each account and see how it goes.

you have nothing at all to lose.

I can see the fairness in this system, however, it's maybe a bit too idealistic.

Obviously everybody's situation is different, but you have to take into account several factors:

1. Can a stepparent really be expected to financially contribute to his/her SCs in the same way he/she contributes to his/her biological children?

1. Should a biological child and its 'other' parent be expected to cut back in order to free up additional resources? I can see that this is fair when a parent has a further biological child, but how about stepchildren?

1. Stepchildren now get taken into account when in comes to CSA calculations ... however, stepparents' income no longer get taken into account under the new system? Fair?

1. What about balancing contributions from other sources? E.g. if one child in a blended family gets significantly more from the 'other parent' (or family members) than the other children in said blended family get from theirs? Do you give them less then?

Not easy!

I have thought about this suggestion - and could see it working (maybe) if we had residency of the children 50% of the time. If we then set up bank accounts (for all 5 children) to access certain things from in a fair way...but in reality I can't see that working for us and our family dynamics as they are even though it would be very fair. Maybe when they grown older and actually want things more than a Beano magazine!

It also gets tricky when you start defining what financial responsibilities a step parent has to their step children. In our situation when he has been involved with them from a very young age, they have less than 40 contact nights a year with their Dad, we have a child together and financially we pool everything - then yes I feel he does have an equal responsibility to the step children as he does to his biological. That is just our case. We have also not reduced payment due to DH having 2 step children or our biological DD. Luckily our children have had similar contributions from their own extended families - so we haven't had this issue - yet!

Which means in most ways the children are on level playing ground, thankfully. I guess it really is just our issue of resident parent finding manipulative ways to get us to pay for more and more things - often to the detriment of the children.

I guess I just wish there was a definitive 'list' that said resident parent should pay for this, this and this and these things should be shared between both parents! Would stop the arguments and emotional blackmail

Well, if it helps, our Cafcass Officer once wrote us a very snotty letter stating quite definitely that haircuts were the province of a Resident Parent and that DP was not to have DSS's hair cut without her express permission.

Whilst I see the pro's and cons of the bank account idea, you could agree in advance a budget that's affordable for all the children - it can be flexible but each financial decision is thought over in relation to all the children - might help stop the endless spending of money in response to emotional blackmail.